Talk:His Master's Voice/Archives/2012

orphan

Victor, Columbia, HMV phograph companies switch from old acoustic mechanical recording methods to new electric microphone technology

From 1925, the only other page that mentions HMV.

Yes, it's an orphan, But I don't know where to link it. Perhaps a list of record companies? Malcolm Farmer 10:39 Nov 7, 2002 (UTC)

UK:EMI/HMV/Virgin

Surely in the UK at least, EMI is the owner of HMV, not Virgin. Though maybe there is now a distinction between the stores, and the record label. -- User:David Martland

His Master's Voice

I've added a quick google around to vague memories, and what I've come up with is this:

• The "His Master's Voice" trademark was owned by EMI in the UK (& Empire?) but by RCA Victor in the USA. Presumably the artist sold the rights seperately.
• The HMV shops chain (which also now owns Waterstones bookshops) was floated in May 2002; It was previously 43% owned by EMI.
• EMI owns Virgin Records and has done for about ten years now.
• Virgin group still owns (or part-owns) the Virgin Megastores retail chain and also owns V2 records.

Does that help? I don't know who now owns the HMV trademark in the USA, but HMV shops seems to be in the UK, Canada and Japan, but not the USA.

--rbrwr

My latest information:

• The Gramophone Company (in the UK) bought all rights to "His Master's Voice" in 1899.
• It sold US rights to the Victor company in 1901.
• Victor bought the Gramophone Company in 1920.
• RCA bought Victor in 1929.
• EMI was formed as the (British?) wing of RCA/Columbia/Parlophone in 1931. See EMI.
• EMI was (apparently) spun off again, owning UK rights to "His Master's Voice" while RCA Victor owned them in the USA.
• RCA is now owned by Thomson, and uses Nipper (and another dog, Chipper) but no gramophone.
• The RCA Victor label (with the "His Master's Voice" logo) is owned by BMG-Bertelsmann.

Sources: http://www.ketupa.net/emi.htm - http://www.ebs.hw.ac.uk/EDC/CAC/m100/nipper.html -http://www.emigroup.com/ - http://www.rca.com/ - http://www.bmg.com/ - http://www.rcaredseal-rcavictor.com/

No dogs were harmed in the making of this comment.

--rbrwr

Brian Epstein

Think there should be a mention or link to Brian Epstein, who of course was running an HMV store when he "discovered" The Beatles? On one hand, it's probably the most famous HMV store in music history, on the other hand, I'm not sure it really has anything to do with the history of HMV. What does everyone think?

I think you should read Brian Epstein, which will tell you it was the NEMS shop that Epstein managed, not HMV. Unless you disgree with that? --rbrwr 22:39 Nov 29, 2002 (UTC)

'doh, you're right. Sorry. My memory was foggy I guess. The Beatles connection to HMV was this.. Epstein, visited an HMV store to have the Beatles demo tapes copied in its recording studio. An HMV technician named Jim Foy heard the songs and told EMI's George Martin about them, which in part led to the eventual record contract for the Beatles.

That might be worth putting in, but there are bigger problems with this article... --rbrwr

Overlapping topics

There seem to be three overlapping topics of interest here:

1. The painting His Master's Voice.
2. Use of the painting (and the name "His Master's Voice") as a trademark, by RCA-Victor and EMI, including its current status.
3. The "HMV Shop" retail chain (UK/Canada/Japan).

I'm not sure whether they're best dealt with in one article or not, or whether it should be at HMV or His Master's Voice...

--rbrwr

I've moved the sections about topic 3 into HMV Group plc, which was previously a redirect. I felt having the company infobox at the top of the page was confusing, as the article then goes on about the trademark. The best solution seemed to me to have a separate article for the retailer.

Topic 1 is only covered insofar as it relates to topic 2. Topic 1 is covered more fully in Nipper. --Mibblepedia 02:23, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

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The article does a good job blending all this related history together. I do wonder about the comment that disc were pre-recorded only. I know Edison machines could record and playback and I thought early disc machines could too until they figured out that people could use them to make copies and not send all their money to record companies. But maybe I misremember. Ortolan88

No, that's correct; disc machines could only play back. (I'm talking about common home machines here of course; by the late 1930s one could get machines that would etch a recording into a special blank disc, but these were not common in home market.)--Infrogmation 06:40 Feb 1, 2003 (UTC)

HMV: Australia

I'm wondering how/if this fits in but from what I gather from Brazin Ltd's website they are the owner/operator of HMV stores in Australia.

HMV: US

Two versions of business in the US on the page.

HMV had a handful of stores in the Eastern United States, which was overseen by HMV's Canadian operations. However, poor real estate decisions made in the early 1990s rendered the United States stores uneconomical and HMV gradually extricated itself from leases, with the final store in the United States closing in 2006.

and

HMV's stores in the United States, having lost £0.5 million in 2003 and £1 million in 2004, closed its last store in the US on 3 November 2004.[4]

PLC

Can anyone explain to me why "plc" is tacked onto the end of HMV Group? -- Reaper X 18:41, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

See Public limited company. Steelbeard1 19:12, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Well it seems kind of tacky to have an article named HMV Group plc, especially with lower caps. Is there a better name we can move this to, maybe either just HMV Group or HMV (retailer)? -- Reaper X 17:17, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Since there was no discussion, I went ahead and moved it to HMV Group. -- Reaper X 16:57, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

"HMV" needs a disambiguation page

I was looking for information on the tiny, 3-wheeled automobile known as the HMV, or "High Mileage Vehicle", built around 1975-1982. References: http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/hmvfreeway/1975.htm, http://nickdrummond.tripod.com/id10.html, http://www.autoblog.com/2006/04/03/ebay-find-of-the-day-1980-hmv-freeway-ii-deluxe/ .

So now we have that, plus the existing disclaimers about the retailer, the novel and the satire. The creation of a disambiguation page at this location would be quite helpful, IMHO.

Typofixer76 23:36, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

• Good idea -- go for it! Then I suggest that the next step should be to interchange this page with the redirect at His Master's Voice. The term HMV is more closely linked to the company than to the painting and trademark. jxm 00:34, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:HMVSavoyHavana.jpg

Image:HMVSavoyHavana.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. — Κaiba 20:36, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Record Speed

I was hoping the article might have shed some light on what speed His Master's Voice records rotated at before 78 RPM was decided on as a standard (though not that standard as the 78 speed was different between US and Europe). I know that HMV's stable mate Columbia was 80 RPM (and marked on the records), but HMV is known to have been different and not marked on the label. If anyone knows and can add this, then they can also mention that HMV records were designed to be played with a stylus having a radius of 0.0028 of an inch (This was never standardised, though 78s were generally played with a compromise stylus of 0.003 inch radius). 20.133.0.13 (talk) 08:57, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

This question is more appropriate for the company articles Gramophone Company and Columbia Graphophone Company. Steelbeard1 (talk) 13:32, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was  Done. — Aitias // discussion 01:06, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

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HMV → His Master's Voice — This article is about the famous painting/trademark, known as "His Master's Voice". A search on Google returned 22,700,000 results for "his masters voice" (including results with the apostrophe (') in "masters") compared to only 19,100,000 results for "hmv" (many/most, if not all of which were referring to the retail chain, not the trademark). This should make it clear that "His Master's Voice" is the most common name referring to the painting/trademark, while "HMV" usually referrs to the music retail chain. If you want this article to be named "HMV", then please find a reliable source to back it up that is not just a mirror of the Wikipedia article. Also, the HMV Group logo should be removed from the top of the article as that more represents the retail company than it does the painting. Instead, one of the images in the Nipper article should replace it, in fact we really should just merge this article into Nipper, as that article already describes much of what this article describes. And besides, we should introduce articles by their full name, not by their acronym. — [|Retro00064 | (talk/contribs) |] 08:46, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Support. Common name. Kittybrewster ☎ 13:03, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

• Support. Yes, "His Master's Voice" is more than a painting, it's more famous as a trade mark for three record companies (Gramophone Company which used the HMV label using its full name, RCA Records and Victor Entertainment) and a chain of record stores. The record store chain is the only company that formally uses the HMV name and has its own article. Steelbeard1 (talk) 14:20, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Yeah, but don't forget that this article is about the painting not the retail company, naming this article HMV could cause confusion with the retail company (readers would likely type HMV to search for the retail company, not HMV Group). [|Retro00064 | (talk/contribs) |] 05:22, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
    • HMV, the record retailer, already has its own article. As I already stated, the article is about the more famous trademark based on the painting. Steelbeard1 (talk) 15:23, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

• Support More common and familiar name. older ≠ wiser 17:27, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

• Support. From early childhood in California in the '60s, I knew what "His Master's Voice" referred to. I never knew what "HMV" was until I saw it here on Wikipedia. I support the longer name as it's more universally understood than "HMV" Binksternet (talk) 17:39, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Isn't HMV a Humvee? 199.125.109.102 (talk) 18:26, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
    • I am not aware of a Humvee being called HMV. As the very least the article does not mention that. --70.24.178.133 (talk) 21:35, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
    • I think you mean HMMWV 76.66.201.179 (talk) 04:34, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
• Support. I'm at a loss to understand why this article name should be abbreviated. The organisation might have been known as HMV, but the image never was. Andrewa (talk) 09:35, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
• Support the image and trademark themselves are not normally referred to as "HMV" – unlike the company – so we don't even have to consider MOS:ABBR; His Master's Voice is the common name --Rogerb67 (talk) 15:03, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
• See also http://www.acronymfinder.com/HMV.html and http://www.acronymattic.com/HMV.html . Anthony Appleyard (talk) 13:56, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.