Talk:Henry Neville (died 1615)

Henry Neville: ambassador or politician

Henry Neville was Ambassador to France for just 15 months of his life (from early May 1599 to August 1600), and held no other diplomatic, let alone ambassadorial, post. By contrast, he was a Member of Parliament from the age of 22 to the end of his life, with just one three-year break (due, for the most part, to his imprisonment in the Tower of London)—that is, for some 31 years from November 1584 until his death in 1615. He would thus much more accurately be described as a politician—albeit a relatively minor one—than as an ambassador or diplomat. I have consequently changed those descriptions of him as such that I have so far found, but I haven't yet learnt how to change page titles—would someone with the knowhow please update this page? —Zoe Ocean 05:51, 4 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zoe Buchanan (talk • contribs)

An ambassador is still an ambassador, even if he only served for 15 months.--dunnhaupt (talk) 17:00, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Neville the ambassador would have left many diplomatic reports and writings. Do they still exist? If so how do they compare with the writings of Shakespeare? Xxanthippe (talk) 02:14, 8 February 2011 (UTC).

Even if it were true that Neville's family carefully destroyed every piece of paper in Neville's handwriting on the British Isles, there must be letters extant by such a widely travelled person at every court in Europe where no correspondence was ever destroyed (e.g. Elsinore = Copenhagen or Paris). By the way, the Queen of England was a Danish princess whose entire correspondence is still extant at Copenhagen.--dunnhaupt (talk) 16:58, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Warwickshire Expressions

One editor made the following, unsourced, comment which I have removed as a red herring:

"Neville is unlikely, however, to have had the knowledge of working-class life and Warwickshire expressions that are so common in Shakespeare's work."

This is an old saw which is patently untrue. Most of the supposed "Warwickshire" expressions and names appear in the Merry Wives of Windsor and Neville has a much stronger claim to being knowledgeable about Windsor than Shakespeare as documented elsewhere (see Billingbear. Provincialisms in Shakespeare are extensive and come from all parts in England. For example, he uses words like "fecks" and "maund" which are Kentish provincialisms). John Chamberlain (talk) 16:30, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Use of "Otherwise inexplicable" in the conspiracy-theory section

In the section regarding the crackpot conspiracy theory that Neville was Shakespeare, the phrase "otherwise inexplicable" is used. The scenario is only "inexplicable" to the promulgators of conspiracy theories. HedgeFundBob (talk) 01:03, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Third party evidence

Dr James also cites a letter by a contemporary which refers to "the author who calls himself Shakespeare" -- which may be additional evidence that "Shakespeare" was used as a pseudonym.--dunnhaupt (talk) 16:44, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Deafness - More References Welcome

I note he got himself recalled from his ambassadorial post by complaining of deafness, but it is unclear if this was an ostensible excuse - so to speak a diplomatic 'illness' - or a condition that had impact on his future life. He certainly remained an MP till he died. It would be interesting to know if there were anecdotes that demonstrated the condition.Cloptonson (talk) 20:59, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Neville apparently operated a successful "cannon manufactury", which would likely explain his deafness. (Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Neville_(died_1615)#cite_note-FOOTNOTEFord-1) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iplawnet (talk • contribs) 13:17, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

As a cause, that depends how much he was involved in the manufactory's day to day business. A man of his position could have easily delegated management to others.Cloptonson (talk) 07:50, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

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Marriage and issue - Mary

"Mary Neville, 1613 – 28 October 1642, married Sir Edward Lewknor.[12]" - I am puzzled by this, as the date generally given for the marriage of Mary Neville to (Sir) Edward Lewkenor of Denham (1587-1618), in contemporary sources, is about 1610, possibly with a betrothal in 1607, and the date of their first child Henry Lewkenor being 1612. This would obviously have been difficult for her if she herself was not yet born. I refer to the Lewkenor genealogy in the Liber Drury, which was drawn up for this Edward Lewkenor in his lifetime, see J.J. Howard (ed.), The Visitation of Suffolke, made by William Hervey, Clarenceux King of Arms, 1561, Vol. II (Samuel Tymms, Lowestoft/Whittaker & Co., London 1871), pp. 261–70, at p. 269; also Sydenham Hervey's memoir, see S.H.A. Hervey, Denham Parish Registers, 1539–1850, with notes and notices (Paul and Mathew, Bury St Edmunds 1904), pp. 226-241; and A. Thrush, 'Lewknor, Sir Edward II (1587–1618), of Denham, nr. Bury St. Edmunds, Suff.', in A. Thrush and J.P. Ferris (eds), The History of Parliament: the House of Commons 1604–1629 (Cambridge University Press, 2010), History of Parliament online. Yet the death-date given for Mary Neville in this Wikipedia article corresponds more or less to what is said elsewhere about her. What is the authority for Mary's birthdate being 1613? About 1595 would make more sense for Mary the wife of Edward Lewkenor. Eebahgum (talk) 09:41, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Obviously you are correct. I re-ordered and removed the birth date. Kfein (talk) 18:23, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Henry Neville's Age at Death

This historical document says he died at age 52: Liber Famelicus of Sir James Whitelocke Kfein (talk) 19:43, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

The Gheeraerts portrait says he was in his 36th year (i.e. 35 years old) in 1599, which is consistent with a 1564 birth date. Tom Reedy (talk) 07:50, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

The current Oxford DNB Entry lists his birth year as 1561/2. This book has 1563. 1563 is the correct answer, the portrait is not wrong, but it must have been painted before he left for France in April. There are other things that point to 1563. Apparently when he entered Oxford in Dec 1577 he was listed as 15. I have not seen the document. That's where the 1561/2 thing comes from, I think. But it's probably not correct. Whitelocke was a close friend it is unlikely he would write the age wrong there. Kfein (talk) 06:42, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

That's not the only thing the ODNB has wrong. Tom Reedy (talk) 19:05, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

This is the document that lists him as being born in 1563 and perhaps 31 March 1563. https://archive.org/details/genealogyfamily00famigoog/page/n164/mode/2up/search/nevell