Talk:HSC Betancuria Express

Leonora Christina (ship)

Latest comment: 13 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Someone needs to correct the absurdly incorrect measurements for this vessel! - 90.230.74.147 at 23 jun 2011 - 20:44 (CET) (please sign your messages)

I agree, I just traveled with Leonora Christina, and they announced that the length is 113 meters Potjernik (talk) 05:44, 4 July 2011 (UTC)Reply

I changed it. The conversion template doesn't put it right, or I o not understand it.--Kind regards, Ro de Jong (Talk to me!) 10:21, 12 July 2011 (UTC)Reply

Requested move

Latest comment: 13 years ago12 comments6 people in discussion

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move to HSC Leonora Christina - As Wikipedia's naming conventions regarding articles about ships instruct, "if a ship is best known in combination with a ship prefix, use the prefix as part of the name." The ship prefix appears to be common in this case, therefore it should be included in the article title. Neelix (talk) 15:25, 27 July 2011 (UTC)Reply

Leonora Christina (ship) → HSC Leonora Christina –

The article should be renamed HSC Villum Clausen for the following reasons.... User:Philphos 08:58, 14 July 2011 (UTC)Reply

1. The majority or articles about fast ferries begin with HSC.For example......

2. According to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (ships).......

Ships share names with people, places, animals and other things. So articles about ships must be named to distinguish them from other similarly-named ships, as well as other things with which they share a name. Philphos (talk) 09:07, 14 July 2011 (UTC)Reply

The convention says: A ship not known by a prefix should appear under its name only. That is why I removed it. Nowhere does it appear as HSC. HSC is only mentioned in the datasheet.

The registers do not name the ship by its prefix. sbib.dk Official Danish Register. (last official danish register online)

Therefor I moved the article back. --Kind regards, Ro de Jong (Talk to me!) 22:31, 12 July 2011 (UTC)Reply

The use of the "HSC" prefix is correct. "HSC Leonora Christina" is a good article name because LEONORA CHRISTINA is a HSC. Prefixes are never used in registers, they are just something chosen by a writer to describe the vessel. LEONORA CHRISTINA could be called for example "MS Leonora Christina" because it is a motor ship but LEONORA CHRISTINA is classified as a High-Speed Craft by the classification society Det Norske Veritas and is built in compliance with the IMO International Code of Safety for High-Speed Craft (HSC Code), so "HSC" is a better describing prefix than "MS". --Helveteshunden (talk) 20:07, 13 July 2011 (UTC)Reply

Comment but you want to rename this "Leonora Christina" not HSC Leonora Christina . Is your nomination in error (ie. you forgot the ship prefix) ? 65.93.15.213 (talk) 06:03, 15 July 2011 (UTC)Reply
- Comment someone added HSC to the request for this article. 65.93.15.213 (talk) 05:36, 17 July 2011 (UTC)Reply

A titel of an article is a name. If their is a "ambique" situation, than a discription is in place. A Prefix is not part of the name, but a classification. A discription requires that it tells what i´t is. -A ship- If there are more ships with the same name, you might add the year, it was made. The prefix is a classification which does not belong in a title. We've had this discussion on the dutch Wikipedia, and I have seen all kinds of arguments. But none of the registers mention the prefix IN the name. The mention it elsewhere in the documents. I suggest that we follow that practice, which has been a practise for more than 150 years (at least). The protocolles of the Danish (Bornholm) ferry compagny writes in their logs, things like S/S "Skandia" and not "S/S Skandia", Neither does it say that on the ship, (just Skandia), and when mentioned combined it is written like S/S Skandia. Norske Veritas does the same. The prefix is only mentioned seperately in the classification column.

We do not have to invent the wheel again. If we follow the simple basic rule, that if their is a ambigue, you just put an explenation between the parenthese (), like (ship), (ferry), (ship from 1866) and (ship from 1905) as it has several ships by that name. HSC, M/S, S/S, are three prefixes, there are loads of those more. We need to keep it simple for our readers. You and I know what the prefix stands for, but most people don't.

Therefor I moved this article to Leonora Christina (ship).

I therefore disagree with the suggestion to move it again.--Kind regards, Ro de Jong (Talk to me!) 09:16, 15 July 2011 (UTC)Reply

Rodejong, You keep to referring to how things are done on the the Dutch and Danish versions of Wikipedia. With all respect this is the English wikipedia and if you care to look at the majority of articles on the English Wikipedia about ships you will see they begin with the prefix. Are you suggesting we rename every ship article? Why should two articles you created about be any different? Philphos (talk) 11:56, 15 July 2011 (UTC)Reply

Ro de Jong, did you even read what I wrote? I never said that the prefix was a part of the name, it is something that can be used before the name, so you don't have to try to explain it for me. As for your example the ship's name is SKANDIA and it is a steam ship so it can be referred to as the S/S Skandia, so why not refer to the HSC named LEONORA CHRISTINA as the HSC Leonora Christina? The practice since over 100 years ago is to use a prefix before a ships name when it is referred to in written text.

Prefixes are not any form of classification, they are just a description chosen by some one who writes a text. Prefixes are never used in ship registers because it is obvious that every name in a ship register is the name of a ship and the ship's classification and propulsion etc. is written in its full length in other data fields so there is no need for a prefix.

I agree that using only the ship's name without any prefix as the article's name is a good way to do it, but that is not what the current article naming convention dictates, so you should try to change the convention instead of renaming articles that are correctly named by the current convention. And the current convention dictates that this article should be named HSC Leonora Christina. --Helveteshunden (talk) 11:59, 15 July 2011 (UTC)Reply

Lloyds certificate

I did read what you say, I just do not agree with it. The ship, Leonora Christina is not known by a prefix, Nowhere do newspapers or other media use that prefix. Even here there is doubt about it. One wrote HSLC, Another writes HSC, The Danes use HF. This, the using of prefixes, makes it harder for the simple user to find what he is looking for. In the search bare it should be able to be found by name, parethese and year if nessecarry.

As you self agree on, it is not part of the name, and if the guideline says it has to be in the title, then the guideline is false. The whole category of ships here is a mess. --Kind regards, Ro de Jong (Talk to me!) 01:08, 17 July 2011 (UTC)Reply

Naming of ships with a prefix is difficult when you have to deal with different languages or even the English language in different countries. We solved that problem these days in Wikimedia Commons, using a simple system there: Ships are categorised according what is painted/welded on the ship. Ships are registered under that name and are obliged to paint this name on the ship according this registration. That makes it easy to find images, even by not experienced users. When you follow the IMO category, you will find the same ship even under different names. There is a problem only, when more ships have that same name. Have a look at: Commons:Category:Europa (ship) and see how this is solved. Using prefixes doesn't make it easier to find an article for not experienced users. By the way: using prefixes for the naval ships results in changing the article name of that ship, when the ship is used in another way. As the prefix shows what the function of the ship is. Not user friendly. --Stunteltje (talk) 06:39, 17 July 2011 (UTC)Reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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