Talk:Guilty Gear X2

Needs a Rewrite

This article is irritating and confusing. Very little of the content has anything to ACTUALLY do with the US release, which is really what is relevant. It's more or less defeating the purpose of an encyclopedia entry, and it practically needs supplemental material to be completely understood. Khorosho (talk) 23:30, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Babel Fish?

One of the references ([1]) is a French site with a Babel Fish translation built into it. What's up with that? Shouldn't it be listed as the original page and annotated that it's in French? How do I do that? — WindOwl 00:32, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Music?

Does Accent Core have any new music? I don't know if it does or not, but if so, I think it's noteworthy enough to go in the article's respective section.

Accent Core US Release Date

Several sites confirm the release date as September 11th. They are as follows.

Gamespot Article[2]

EBgames[3]

Amazon.com[4]

Unless these change, the article should reflect this date. DbishopNWF 14:54, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

While that date is probably right, and I'm not going to undo the edits, I'd still take it with a grain of salt. Unless Aksys themselves outright say when the game will be released, nothing is really official. Besides, this only applies to the PS2 version right now. The Wii version still has a placeholder of Aug 31.

Satoryu 12:37, August 2 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps placing a date for both versions would be more acceptable? Also, I partially agree with taking this with a grain of salt. At least it's not Blizzard Entertainment. DbishopNWF 17:08, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

It is not pronouced "Guilty Gear Excess"

I've removed this once before and I don't know who keeps adding it but they're wrong. エクセス is the katakana of "excess", NOT イグゼクス. For the love of me, I can't figure out what イグゼクス is supposed to be read as, but I know it's not excess, so stop saying it is.--SeizureDog 03:34, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

イグゼクス translates to "ex ex" unsurprisingly. Why it's not written as エクセクス is beyond me though.--Satoryu 04:46, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah the diacriticals are messing me up too. I see that as i-gu-ze-ku-su, how that means ex ex is beyond me. DBishop¹⁹⁸⁴ 16:08, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't. The common Japanese phonetic transliteration for the Japanese "X" would be "ekkusu". I don't know why they pronounce the "X" as "zex" ("zekusu") and the "XX" as "igzex" ("iguzekusu"), in these games, but these definitely don't stand for the regular English "X" and "X X". 88.161.129.43 (talk) 19:55, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

While I can't explain using "i" instead of "e", the reason "guze" is used in place of the more logical "kuse" is because that is how "ekusekusu" comes out phonetically. I could only guess the "i" comes from this too. A similar thing happens to the term EXE, which in Japanese is pronounced "eguze". A more general example would be the word for newspaper, "shinbun", which when said comes out as "shimbun" because it's easier for the mouth to transition from m to b than from n. Satoryu (talk) 20:50, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

That's a nice rationalization, but I'm afraid I simply don't buy it. ^^; I mean, it's pronounced "iguzekusu" in Japanese. When Japanese people pronounce "ekkusu" twice, it's just that: "ekkusu ekkusu". Not "iguzekusu".

As far as I can tell, "iguzekusu" is a cute (and possibly entirely arbitrary, as I can't think of a language that would fit the bill, personally) way to pronounce "XX" just like "zekusu" was a cute way to pronounce the "X" in the previous game. I mean, I would love to hear a good explanation about all that (""X" is pronounced "zex" in *language-I-obviously-don't-know-much-about*", that sort of thing), but really, at this point, I have to shrug and chalk it up to "poetic license".

As for Rockman EXE, I'm not sure why you're using that example, as that's the beginning of an English word, here, not just three juxtaposed letters... If anything, I'm reminded of Rockman ZX, which is pronounced "rokkuman zekusu". Not quite as weird as "Guilty Gear X" (where the "X" is also pronounced "zekusu"), courtesy of the "Z", but still not a "standard" pronounciation of "Z X".

Anyway, "zekusu" and "iguzekusu" definitely aren't standard transliterations of "X" and "X X", and I think that's noteworthy, especially considering the Guilty Gear X PV I mentioned below. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 22:59, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

"When Japanese people pronounce 'ekkusu' twice, it's just that: 'ekkusu ekkusu'."

I just told you otherwise. It is phonetics. We say it "ex ex", Japan doesn't. Satoryu (talk) 00:50, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I know you just told me otherwise, but you're wrong. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 09:59, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Find a source where the English version is pronounced that way, and we'll put it in. If there is no source, it's not verifiable. Satoryu (talk) 17:00, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Based on the katakana, the title is supposed to be pronounced "igzex" ("iguzekusu"). Now, that's easily verifiable. Of course, if you have an official source stating it is to be pronounced in another manner in English-speaking countries... Do you? 88.161.129.43 (talk) 17:58, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

To my knowledge, there is no set way to pronounce the name outside Japan. So we leave it blank so as not to claim something that is not verifiable. Satoryu (talk) 19:17, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I digress. This isn't what we're here to argue about. We are trying to determine if we should include "Igzex" into the nihon template. Which I still say no to. "Igzex" is not a completely unrelated pronunciation like "Zex" is. "iguzekusu" is how "ekusekusu" is said phonetically by Japanese people. The first "ekusu" is voiced, while the second isn't. For English speakers like ourselves, that's not the case. We would say "ekusekusu" as "ex ex" cause the two languages have phonetic differences. Therefore, because the title is the same in all regions, nothing further should be added to the nihon template. Satoryu (talk) 20:28, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

""iguzekusu" is how "ekusekusu" is said phonetically by Japanese people."

Still not true, sorry. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 21:11, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Denial is not just a river. Can you back up your claim? Satoryu (talk) 23:40, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I must have missed the part where you backed up yours... Anyway, yeah, I can back up my claim. I already did with the "XXL" example, actually, but you didn't reply. That's something you can easily check on Google, for example: "iguzekusu" isn't how Japanese people pronounce "X X". A double "X" will simply be "X" pronounced twice, i.e. "ekkusu ekkusu" or "ekusu ekusu" (or, if they're in that kind of mood, "daburu ekkusu"/"daburu ekusu" or "tsū ekkusu"/"tsū ekusu"). Sorry if you liked your explanation better, but that doesn't change the fact it's wrong. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 00:29, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Did you read anything I've said over the past 2 days? Iguzekusu is one of many exceptions to normal Japanese. Others include "rajio" for radio, "zero" for zero, "zakusu" for Zack, and "ryuuka" for Lucas. And where's your proof that XXL is pronounced as you said? Do you natively speak the language? (If so, I must ask why the GGX video you linked to was from Youtube France.) Even if you did, your sources are all unverifiable, and so are mine. Therefore, nothing can be done to the page. Satoryu (talk) 03:15, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

"Iguzekusu is one of many exceptions to normal Japanese."

Yes, it's an exception. An exception that's exclusive to Guilty Gear. It was made up by Ishiwatari, a far as I can tell. It's not how Japanese people pronounce "XX", contrarily to what you've been claiming. I've yet to see you back that one up. Wonder why.

"Others include "rajio" for radio, "zero" for zero, "zakusu" for Zack, and "ryuuka" for Lucas."

Wow, you really don't know what you're talking about, do you?

1) I'm not sure what you expected for "zero" and "radio". Besides, my dictionary tells me that the Japanese "zero" actually comes from the French "zéro", sooo...

2) For the "zakusu"/"Zack" thing, I guess you're thinking of the Final Fantasy VII character. First of all, that would be "zakkusu", with a double "k". Then, no, "zakusu" or "zakkusu" aren't the standard transliterations for "Zack" (that would be "zakku", like for this guy here). The reason the US localization team changed "zakkusu" into "Zack" is unclear, but I wouldn't expect much from the guys who came up with "Aeris". Maybe they simply thought the name would sound more familiar to English-speaking players that way? Anyway, prior to the release of Final Fantasy VII Advent Children, whenever it was spelled in alphabet in Japan (not that often, admittedly), it was "Zax" (as can be seen in the Japanese version of Ehrgeiz, for example). Which makes a lot of sense, considering the kana spelling "zakkusu". After that, they apparently adopted the US spelling (like they did for "Barret", whose name was spelled "Barett" in Japan until then). You can actually find both spellings, "Zax" and "Zack", in Last Order Final Fantasy VII (yay for consistency!).

3) The standard Japanese rendition of the English "Lucas" is "rūkasu". "Ryuka" (I guess you're referring to the Mother 3 character, right? that would be "ryuka", not "ryuuka"), on the other hand, is the standard transliteration of the French "Lucas" (see this guy, for example). Don't assume it's necessarily English.

"where's your proof that XXL is pronounced as you said?"

I guess that means you didn't even try and fire Google up... Here's one of the many results.

"Do you natively speak the language? (If so, I must ask why the GGX video you linked to was from Youtube France.)"

(gasp!) You got me there, I'm French! And that logically means I simply can't know Japanese enough to tell that you don't know what you're talking about. It's not like I could be, say, a Japanese to French translator, for example, huh?

"your sources are all unverifiable, and so are mine."

My sources are verifiable, and you don't have any, as far as I can tell. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 07:59, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

It's been 10 days, and you have yet to prove that "iguzekusu" is the standard (or even "a common") Japanese transliteration of "X X". Do we agree that you were wrong about that, then? And if "iguzekusu" isn't a standard pronunciation of "X X" (just like "zekusu" wasn't a standard pronunciation of "X" in Guilty Gear X, really), wouldn't you say it's noteworthy? Surely, you wouldn't argue that this is more obvious than "#" being pronounced "sharp", right? 88.161.129.43 (talk) 13:21, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

You still need a verifiable source to back up your claims. See WP:V. Satoryu (talk) 20:30, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

The kana spelling is a verifiable source, I already told you that. What's yours? You're claiming that the pronunciation of the "XX" part shouldn't be specified because it's simply "ex ex". Source? Because I have one right here that says it isn't simply pronounced "ex ex"... If you can't argue against that, I'll go and put it back into the article. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 00:09, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, now it just goes back to the case of redundancy. The roumaji is there. I don't see the need to create a romanization. Further, you can't just make up a romanization. That, too, requires a source. Satoryu (talk) 00:53, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

"Igzex" is simply meant to indicate the pronunciation to English-speaking readers. I never claimed the spelling "igzex" had any official value. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 02:11, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

EU Backwards Lie

Is it worth noting that Microsoft's Xbox 360 Backwards Compatability list incorrectly shows this game as Backwards Compatible?

Yet, the US release & Xbox Live function correctly? --90.201.23.65 (talk) 20:51, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

"Igzex"

There is no reason to show this pronunciation. That is what the nihon template is for. Further, there is no actual proof that the non-Japanese versions pronounce the game in that way. This is the English Wikipedia, after all. There are pronunciations for Sharp Reload and Accent Core cause those two aren't immediately recognizable. Satoryu (talk) 13:25, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

The nihon template is here to show the original title in Japanese and its romaji transliteration. While you can infer the intended pronunciation from the Japanese title, indeed, I believe that's not the primary purpose of the template (not to mention some knowledge of the Hepburn system and Japanese phonetics in general are necessary in the first place, and I wouldn't assume that from the lambda reader... I mean, you just said that "iguzekusu" actually standed for "ex ex", and... well, it doesn't). As for how it's meant to be said in English-speaking countries, this Guilty Gear X promotion movie was intended for an English-speaking audience, and it pronounces the title "Guilty Gear Zex"... Also, I wouldn't argue that "X" being pronounced "zex" or "XX" being pronounced "igzex" are more obvious than "#" being prounounced "Sharp"... 88.161.129.43 (talk) 16:34, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Where exactly is the NA/EU releases referred to as Igzex? As far as I know, the game's title is never pronounced in such a way. Keep in mind that two regions don't share the same pronunciation of the same word. Satoryu (talk) 20:50, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I just gave you an example of "Guilty Gear X" being pronounced "Guilty Gear Zex", just like in Japan. Why assume things would be different for the sequel? 88.161.129.43 (talk) 22:36, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I reiterate: the pronunciation in Japanese is not necessarily the same as the pronunciation in English. Radio and Zero say hi. Satoryu (talk) 00:50, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

That's completely beside the point. The common Japanese rendering of "X" is "ekkusu" (generally) or "ekusu". In Guilty Gear X, it becomes "zekusu". How do you explain that? Why "zex"? Where does that one come from? Simple: from the same place "igzex" comes from. And as far as I can tell, that would be Ishiwatari's imagination. Those are not standard pronunciations of "X" or "X X" at all. Heck, it's not like it's difficult to go and find some examples of a double "X" in Japan... How do you think they say "XXL"? "Ekkusu ekkusu eru". 88.161.129.43 (talk) 10:09, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

So, wow, this thread gives me a headache. Let me see if I can at least clarify a couple of factors that are making the argument needlessly circular. I am fluent in Japanese and a professional translator, and Iguzekusu is absolutely not how they would pronounce XX normally. It seems reasonable to assume that it is an irregular pronunciation invented by the game designers; if not them, a slang pronunciation they have chosen to use. Drop this entire section of the argument.

The only question here is how notable this pronunciation is. I think you both have points here; in my opinion, how it is pronounced in Japanese is of interest, regardless of whether it is pronounced like that in English, and this could easily be solved by "pronounced ____ in Japan." I am less sure about "igzex"; creating a new romanization for the Japanese pronunciation is something that might be worth sourcing. But it is also a fine placeholder in the absence of a good source. Doceirias (talk) 23:41, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I looked around quite a bit, and I couldn't find an official romanization for the "iguzekusu". In the meantime, "igzex" is just intended to give an idea of the pronunciation, and I don't think I'm assuming too much by removing the "U"s...

As for the origin of the "iguzekusu" pronunciation, I'm still clueless... Well, almost, anyway. One possibility I'm seeing is that they changed both "X" into "ex" and formed the imaginary word "exex". With the "exe" pronounced as in "Executor" / "iguzekyūtā" (one of Eddie's moves), that could work... But that's just a wild theory (which still wouldn't explain how "Guilty Gear X" turned out to be pronounced "Guilty Gear Zex"), and if we're just going to give an idea of the intended pronunciation, "igzex" seems more intuitive than "exex" to me. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 16:05, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

It's not an official romanization really but this article on Famitsu has the "iguzekusu" for "XX". Would this be good enough, guys? Sake neko (talk) 16:53, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but I don't see "iguzekusu" anywhere on the page. Did I just overlook it? "Iguzekusu" isn't the point of argument anyway. Satoryu (talk) 15:30, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Just what is the point of argument, anyway? The fact that "Igzex" isn't (as far as I know) an official romanization of the "XX" pronunciation? I never claimed it was in the first place. I'm only saying it would be better to add that to the article in order to give non-Japanese speaking readers an idea of the intended (non-standard) pronunciation. Just "iguzekusu" in the nihongo template won't be all that informative to them. Heck, even you thought it simply standed for "ex ex". If you made that mistake, I shouldn't have to convince you that others might too.

Sake neko, I don't see any romanization in that article either? Am I overlooking something? 88.161.129.43 (talk) 11:57, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Igzex isn't an official romanization. Dropping out the u may not be the creator's intention, and the I may not be pronounced as it normally should. Igzex is OR, while iguzekusu isn't. And I do still think iguzekusu is how ex ex is said phonetically in Japanese. It's just not written that way in everyday katakana.

Why do I bother? We're not going to be able to solve this by ourselves. We need a third opinion. Satoryu (talk) 16:36, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

"the I may not be pronounced as it normally should."

Er... Whuh? I don't think there's any doubt about the pronunciation of the "i" kana, really... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.161.129.43 (talk) 23:05, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

"Igzex is OR, while iguzekusu isn't."

But "iguzekusu" doesn't tell you that it's not the standard Japanese transliteration of "XX", unless you know some Japanese.

Would you be fine with "guilty gear igzex" (no caps), to emphasize the fact it's not an official romanization? Or a note stating "iguzekusu" is a non-standard pronunciation of "XX", just like "zekusu" was a non-standard pronunciation of the "X" in Guilty Gear X?

"And I do still think iguzekusu is how ex ex is said phonetically in Japanese."

Oh, dear... Well, you're still wrong. Ask around, I don't know... 88.161.129.43 (talk) 23:03, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

No, there wasn't any romanization on the page. I thought the problem was finding evidence of the Japanese phonetics so I posted a link to show them. I really think this isn't an issue of how the Japanese say this or that though, more of an aesthetic issue. Is it so hard to accept that that's how someone in the company (probably Daisuke) choose to have "XX" read? "Iguzekusu" isn't a standard pronunciation for "XX" at all. I mean, using "xx" in a title can mean lots of things such as a variable or placeholder", "Excel" (used for a Toyota car brand), or literally "double X". It just depends really. In other words, I'm for 88.161.129.43's assessment on this one since they're trying to make the chosen pronunciation more English friendly. Sake neko (talk) 08:54, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I wasn't the best example, fine. A better one is how the u's are pronounced. If they aren't silent, Igzex would be incorrect. This is why a source would be needed; to explain the pronunciation. Satoryu (talk) 20:17, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Clearing up the イグゼクス issue

I'm going to try to clear up the above arguments.「いぐぜ」(iguze) is sometimes used for words that have a "exe-" at the beginning followed by a hard consonant cut-off sound in their katakana form. Examples include the word for "executive", イグゼキュテブ (iguzekyutebu), and the word for "exempt", イグゼンプト (iguzenputo). イグゼクス (iguzekusu) is simply the katakana form of the English phonetic pronunciation of "XX" ("ecksecks"). Especially consider that "executive" can be shortened to "execs" in English, and the katakana form of that word would be イグゼクス (iguzekusu). Please check your Japanese dictionaries if you disagree.

That said, the whole thing about it being pronounced "Guilty Gear Igzex" is something that would have been created by fans, unless the company has officially called it "Igzex" at some point, which is something I'm not aware of. The official name's pronunciation, according to the Japanese pronunciation, is just to say "XX" as two letter Xes in English. Mjatucla (talk) 01:10, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm editting the page according to what I've said here. It is "イグゼクス" (iguzekusu) in Japanese and "XX" in English. It is clear, from a linguistic standpoint, that "イグゼクス" was used solely to define the pronunciation of "XX" for the Japanese as "ecksecks" as opposed to "double ecks" or "ecks cross" or "cross cross" or whatever other pronunciations one could come up with. In this case, the katakana was used to transliterate the English "XX" into Japanese, and therefore its English pronunciation was established beforehand as "ecksecks". If someone finds an official pronunciation of it other than "ecksecks" in English, please change the article to reflect so. Until then, it is probably most wise to recognize that there isn't an official English pronunciation for "XX" known at this time, and therefore the article should not state that there is, and when referred to in English, it should say "XX", not "igzex" or any other supposed pronunciation. Mjatucla (talk) 01:28, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

「いぐぜ」(iguze) is sometimes used for words that have a "exe-" at the beginning followed by a hard consonant cut-off sound in their katakana form. Examples include the word for "executive", イグゼキュテブ (iguzekyutebu), and the word for "exempt", イグゼンプト (iguzenputo).

True (well, エグゼクティブ seems a good deal more common than your イグゼキュテブ... only one hit on Google Japan ^^;).

イグゼクス (iguzekusu) is simply the katakana form of the English phonetic pronunciation of "XX" ("ecksecks").

Still not true. Heck, even by looking at your phonetic "ecksecks," it should be obvious that the "gu" is out of place...

"Iguzekusu" isn't the standard katakana form of "XX" (in fact, it's so far from being standard that I'd really like you to show me some examples), just like "zekusu" wasn't the standard katakana form of "X" (see Guilty Gear X).

consider that "executive" can be shortened to "execs" in English, and the katakana form of that word would be イグゼクス (iguzekusu).

I fail to see how that's relevant. We're not talking about "exe-something," here. We're talking about "XX." 88.161.129.43 (talk) 00:38, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Mjatucla, thank you for clearly stating what I have tried to say since the beginning. It's all about English linguistics and transliterating it into katakana. イグゼクス isn't the translation of the written form of XX, but of the spoken form. Just say "executive" aloud. The exe will sound like "iguze." The same applies to XX. Satoryu (talk) 19:03, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but you're both wrong.

Mjatucla didn't demonstrate anything. He merely stated that the katakana transliteration of some English words could begin with "iguze." Yes, indeed, some of them do. So what? That doesn't explain how "iguzekusu" would simply be a katakana rendition of "XX." Especially when Mjatucla himself writes "XX" phonetically as "ecksecks." Where did the first "k" sound go? How do you get "gu"?

Just say "executive" aloud. The exe will sound like "iguze." The same applies to XX.

Just say "XX" aloud. Does it sound like "execs"? Not exactly, no. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 01:11, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, yes, it does. Are you a native English speaker? Satoryu (talk) 05:02, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, yes, it does.

Somehow, I doubt that. Or are you saying you disagree with Mjatucla's "ecksecks"? You can't have both.

Are you a native English speaker?

You already know I'm not. And I do hope you have more convincing arguments than that. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 05:34, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Satoryu, I'm sorry to have left you to deal with this. To the unsigned individual arguing against this: There is no less harsh way to put this. You do not know Japanese transliteration of English well enough to understand this. You are also damaging the integrity of this article by continuously reverting it to the incorrect statement "pronounced "Guilty Gear Igzex" at the beginning. It's a very silly issue that you are not budging on in spite of having multiple Japanese speakers telling you that you are wrong. Sufficed to say, I'm now putting this article on watch, and if I see you keep changing it without having any official source to prove that it's pronounced "Guilty Gear Igzex" in English, something may have to be done about it. You need sources for statements like a specific pronunciation like this. Worse yet, you have people with integral knowledge of Japanese transliteration explaining it to you, and then you are throwing it back in their faces and telling them they're wrong without providing any apparent backing for your statments. Get a source or please stop it with this needless challenging.Mjatucla (talk) 05:02, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

There is no less harsh way to put this. You do not know Japanese transliteration of English well enough to understand this.

Sorry, but that's how I feel about your comments as well...

"Iguzekusu" never was a standard transliteration of "XX." I know that, Doceirias knows that, Nihonjoe knows that, Sake neko knows that... Satoryu and you apparently don't.

It's a very silly issue that you are not budging on in spite of having multiple Japanese speakers telling you that you are wrong.

I don't believe Satoryu knows Japanese, so that would just be you, actually, unless I'm missing something.

you have people with integral knowledge of Japanese transliteration explaining it to you, and then you are throwing it back in their faces and telling them they're wrong without providing any apparent backing for your statments.

Er... When did you back up yours? Again, your "explanation" amounted to:

• 1) Some English words contain the string "iguze" when transliterated into kana
• 2) ???
• 3) Therefore "iguzekusu" is just a standard transliteration of "XX"

Sorry, but there's something missing in there...

Also, I asked you to explain how you can argue that "XX" / "ecksecks" would end up as "iguzekusu" in kana, and you didn't. Where did the first "k" sound in "ecksecks" go? Where does the "gu" kana come from?

So please don't tell me that "I'm throwing your explanations back in your face and telling you that you're wrong without providing any apparent backing." That's pretty much what you just did, here... And arguing that you have "integral (!) knowledge of Japanese transliteration" won't cut it.

Anyway, like I said several times earlier, I'm not arguing that "igzex" is an official rendering of "iguzekusu" (heck, there's a good chance the only official alphabet rendering of "iguzekusu" we'll ever have is "XX"), I simply think it's an helpful "guide" for English-speaking readers, a nice placeholder.

Maybe it would be better to spell it as "guilty gear igzex" (without capitalization) to show that it's just intended to show the (peculiar) pronunciation. Maybe it would be better not to assume any "mute" "u" sound and simply add a footnote stating that "iguzekusu" is a non-standard pronunciation of "XX." That's something I'm entirely willing to discuss. But I really don't think the article should be left as is, as only those familiar enough with Japanese (apparently, Satoryu and you aren't included) would be able to tell that the "iguzekusu" pronunciation is a non-standard one. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 16:08, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Almost hate to dredge this up, but has there been any official instance of the "XX" phonetic spelling? If not, could we please remove "Igzex", or replace it with the suggested "non-standard spelling" note? If anyone familiar with romaji were to vocally muddle with it, it should become apparent that it's the English letter "X" twice. Besides, "Igzex" is somewhat misleading, since how an English speaker would handle "Ig-" is, I will assume, different from how a romaji "i" is handled; that is, we'd say "Ig-" as if from the word "big", rather than with an "eeg" noise. Right? T.J. Fuller, Jr. (talk) 00:35, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

If I knew of an official instance of the phonetic spelling (I imagine you are (well, were) thinking of an IPA spelling, for example?), this would probably have been a shorter discussion! ^^

And I still don't know how you get "it's just the letter X pronounced twice in English" from "iguzekusu". "Iguz" / "ekusu". Clearly not the same sounds. And there would be the Guilty Gear X precedent: hopefully, you wouldn't argue that "zekusu" is just the standard English pronunciation of the letter "X"! ^^;

Finally, I'm not sure what you mean about how an English speaker would handle the "ig" bit, as in "big" or as an "eeg" noise, sorry... Erigu (talk) 02:37, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Accent Core Plus requires disc?

I'm the (almost sole) author of the Russian version of this article and am kinda interested in the statement "A cheaper "Append" version of this game requires the Λ Core disk upon start-up". I couldn't find any proof of it, as most relevant google links point to Wikipedia or sites that copy its content. Can anyone show me any proof at a non-wiki site? The disc fact itself is important enough to mention in the article, I think, but I can't do so without sources. ru:Ari —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.226.233.158 (talk) 11:10, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it's true. There's a "regular version" (stand alone) and an "append version" (that requires the "vanilla" Guilty Gear XX Λ Core disc). The official page mentions both versions. It's in Japanese, but I don't believe the game has been released elsewhere, and... well, it doesn't get more official than that. You can see the covers at the bottom of the page: "regular version" on the left, "append version" on the right. Erigu (talk) 19:52, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Tnx a lot, I can read some Japanese (very little, but the info on the official site seems correct, if I'm not deeply mistaken), so the link you provided would be suitable as a source. Tnx once more. :-) ru:Ari —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.226.233.158 (talk) 13:27, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

No problem, 'glad it helped. Erigu (talk) 01:22, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Sales [citation needed]

"The PlayStation 2 version of Guilty Gear X2 has sold well in Japan; over 140 million copies were sold between 2002 and 2004." "140 million copies"

I call BS on this number, especially given that no verifiable links were included with that statement. The best selling video game (as of 2014) has been Wii Fit (~82 million). Did the person who added this "140 million copies" mean "14 million copies" instead? Or possibly "140 thousand copies"?

I won't personally remove it, but it really does need to be addressed by someone with more information on the subject.173.228.18.224 (talk) 04:30, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

A quick search yields this site which contains (possibly) accurate statistics:

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=guilty+gear+xx

Note that the combined sales of all Guilty Gear XX versions (including #R, Slash, Accent Core, AC+, etc.) totals only 0.83 million, or 830,000 (830 thousand). That is a far cry from 140 million for the PS2 version that the article currently shows.

Again, I will not change it, if only because there may be a (small) chance of conflicting statistics which may well show Guilty Gear XX as having sold millions upon millions of copies. Unlikely, but hey, stranger things have happened.173.228.18.224 (talk) 04:40, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, my fault. It should be 140 thousand. The sources are in the "Reception" section. Gabriel Yuji (talk) 05:19, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

VGChartz has long been considered an unreliable source on Wikipedia. Terrible site in general for getting numbers. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 05:26, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Agreed, a source like Media Create is much more reliable. Maybe the folks at Dustloop.com have better numbers? Jotamide (talk) 23:13, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

In fact, the source for sales is Geimin.net, which takes information from Famitsu weekly reports. While VGChartz is listed as unreliable by the project, I don't know about Dustloop.com's reability. Is it has different information on sales compared to Geimin? Gabriel Yuji (talk) 00:14, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Suggestion to split Guilty Gear XX/X2 updates into different articles

A similar game that has had many revisions throughout its lifetime was Street Fighter II. However, on that page every revision has been neatly put into its own article. I think we should do the same for the Guilty Gear XX/X2 series of games. A single paragraph dedicated to each revision doesn't do justice to the (sometimes) myriad of changes each new revision brought, not to mention that the External links section is currently a mess. Also, the Reception section is not a good representation of the series, as some games were better received than others. I want to put this to discussion to see if people would be willing to contribute to start this task. Jotamide (talk) 23:36, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

I would say that at least Accent Core and its derivatives should probably get a separate article. Dunno about making separate articles for everything. Sniffnoy (talk) 23:55, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

While working on it, I've wondering to do it. However, I'm not sure to do this. I have almost sure Slash has no considerable content to worth a article. Accent Core seems the more prominent to be split; a plethora of change have been done to it, there is a lot of reception on it, and maybe Core Plus and Core Plus R can be part of it. However, I'm not willing to do that now; I'm focusing on expanding this article as much as I can (as well as other game in the series), and, after it, maybe I will consider this hypothesis. SF II is a bad example, I would say; the main article is in a reasonable state, but all related pages are in a very poor situation: almost none of them have sources or "Reception" sections (or when it exists, it's very shallow; SSF and HD Remix seems to be the more prominent ones). To do articles like that, I prefer to keep it in the current status. Of course, that's just my opinion, and nothing prevents someone to split. Gabriel Yuji (talk) 00:16, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Indeed; IIRC, until recently, those weren't all separate articles -- there was just SFII, Super SFII, and maybe one or two more. (OK, looking it up, it was May 2011, so not that recently after all, but...) Sniffnoy (talk) 00:20, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

I'm still unsure about whether or not the SFII articles should have been split. Right now, I don't feel that there is enough in the GGXX article to split it. Might as well keep it all in one article for now, let it grow, and see if a split can happen later. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 01:26, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

I guess it would depend on the size of those new articles... I don't know that I'd find all that many things to say about those different revisions, myself.

(I do miss the old infoboxes for those revisions though) Erigu (talk) 02:42, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

• It likely depends on how much text needs to be used to describe each version of the game. I do not play videogames and thus I have no direct knowledge here. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 08:04, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

After reading everyone's comments, maybe we should start one step at a time and just create a page for Accent Core? That way we could have: X2, #Reload, and Slash in the X2 page and Accent Core, Accent Core Plus, and Accent Core Plus R in the other one? Jotamide (talk) 20:41, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Per the commentaries, I guess, nobody here is willing to start such page. If you are, I would recommend to start it in your own sandbox. If you manage to gather information enough to create it as a standalone page, I think any one I will oppose to it. But for it you need to provide a quality article can be done. Serious, to create articles like the SFII ones, I would recommend you to don't waste your time. But, as I said, if you can do a great article (maybe one valuable of B or GA-class), that's a different story. Gabriel Yuji (talk) 21:17, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

European release

The article current shows its European release occurred on March 28, 2003 (the same as in GameFAQs, a non-reliable source). However, through a search I've found inconsistent dates: Eurogamer shows March 7, JeuxVideo March 21, GameZone April 17. Sammy site, however, indicates the February release in North America encompassed Europe too ([5]). I'm not sure though, because the difference of dates is considerable, and I couldn't find a review from an European site. Gabriel Yuji (talk) 03:58, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

XX or X2?

The article isn't any clear about the circumstances in which the XX and X2 names are used. I've personally never seen it as X2. Anyone care to clarify? --uKER (talk) 20:35, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

I've seen it both ways. I never questioned the decision to use X2 because I thought Gabriel Yuji had a good reason to use it, but I guess now's the time to hear that reason? TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 03:15, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

WP:ENGLISH: "The title of an article should generally use the version of the name of the subject which is most common in the English language". And, more specifically, WP:NCVG#Games: "Use the most commonly accepted English name first, if one exists." All English-language reviews use "X2", not "XX". Gabriel Yuji (talk) 20:42, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Guilty Gear X2/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jaguar (talk · contribs) 19:16, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

I will leave some initial comments within 24 hours and will mainly focus on copyediting issues. Thanks! ☠ Jaguar ☠ 19:16, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Ok, Jaguar; can you ping me when you start? Gabriel Yuji (talk) 00:56, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Sorry for the wait, I'll do the review now. ☠ Jaguar ☠ 12:08, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. Has an appropriate reference section:

   B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

Initial comments

• There is nothing on the development in the lead; a couple of sentences could be added for example how long did it take for the game to develop? You could also incorporate some of the development section into the lead?
• The lead is informative and summarises the article concisely, so this meets the GA criteria
• "On the other hand, when a character moves backwards" - these phrases don't bind well with most GANs, how about However, when a character moves backwards?
• "Arcade, Survival, M.O.M. (an acronym for Medal of Millionaires[8][9])" - citations should be outside the brackets!
• "Sammy Studios had announced that a Guilty Gear X spin-off, titled Guilty Gear XX" - isn't this game called Guilty Gear X2? What prompted the name change?
• The reception section has good prose and is also well referenced. I couldn't find any problems here.

References

• Ref 64 is a redirect
• Ref 67 and 66 are also broken
• Ref 59 and Ref 57 are dead
• Ref 55 also appears broken (but this one could just be me?)

On hold

In its current standing the article does not meet the GA criteria however if all of those issues (especially the broken references) are addressed then this article will stand a good chance of passing the GAN. I'll put this on hold for the standard seven days and once they have all been addressed I'll take another look at it and see if it meets the GA criteria. Other than those problems the second half of the article is well written and well referenced! @Gabriel Yuji: Please let me know when you think you're finished. Thanks, ☠ Jaguar ☠ 12:29, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

I guess I've fixed all the issues. The Guilty Gear XX the Japanese title. It was how it was announced; I've tried to explain that the NA release changed its title. Gabriel Yuji (talk) 19:17, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Close - promoted

@Gabriel Yuji: Thank you for your swift response! The article now meets the GA criteria as all of the above concerns have been addressed. All the references are fine, the citations are in the correct places and the prose of this article is now at a GA standard. The lead also summarises the article so I couldn't find any problems there. Well done! ☠ Jaguar ☠ 22:48, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

@Jaguar: Thank you for the review. Cheers, Gabriel Yuji (talk) 18:56, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

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Explanation for the edit to the Psyche Burst section I’ve just made.

I thought there was a Talk section on the edit pages, but it seems like if there is, I can’t access it from the iOS app. So I’ll leave my explanation here. Originally, the section of the article said that Psyche Burst, when it connects with the opponent, fills the Tension gague to its full capacity. Psyche Burst does have that property, but only when used under certain conditions. There are, in fact, two different kinds of Bursts; Blue and Gold. Gold Bursts are performed when the Burst input is done while your character is in a non-defensive state. It is faster than a Blue Burst, bars your opponent from attacking you in any way during its recovery, and grants 100% Tension when it hits an unblocking opponent. Blue Bursts, on the other hand, occur when the burst command is inputted when your character is in a defensive state (e.g. while being hit, or during blockstun). They are slower to come out, are vulnerable to being punished on recovery, and do not grant full Tension on hit.

I’m quite new to Wikipedia editing, so I’m unsure if I need to add a new citation to either corroborate what I’ve mentioned here or in the edit itself. Sorry for being so long-winded, and if I’ve made a mistake somewhere, please let me know. HiddenMissiles (talk) 09:38, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Note that the two types of Psyche Burst differ in speed only in the first three versions of X2; the original, #Reload and Slash. In Accent Core and newer versions, both Burst types have 19 frames of startup. HiddenMissiles (talk) 09:43, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

It's a good edit, HiddenMissiles. Thank you. Unfortunately we are limited to write what reliable sources tell us, so I couldn't detail it that much originally when I wrote it. I think you're edit is welcome because it doesn't add too much extraneous information without a new source. Gabriel Yuji (talk) 02:25, 25 January 2022 (UTC)