Talk:Gagik Tsarukyan

Tax evasion

Serouj, you named a section "Tax evasion" however you did not bring a single evidence for it. The fact that a gold company paid more taxes than a cement company is not a proof. Another thing you should know, is that taxes in Armenia are paid on income and not on revenue. So a company can have a huge revenue, but pay zero taxes, if it did not make any profit. So either add some proofs or rename the title. -Սահակ/Sahak (talk) 07:07, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

For example the majority of companies in America pay no federal income tax. http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/258546 -Սահակ/Sahak (talk) 07:10, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Sahak, read the source given. The companies are either posting losses, posting no profit, or under-reporting income. This contrasts with reality when in fact the companies are clearly profitable and maintain Tsarukian's luxurious lifestyle. More info coming soon, particularly on the Ararat cement factory.Serouj (talk) 07:17, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Serouj, none of the two references that you have given claims that Gagig has been evading taxes. Tax evasion is the general term for efforts to not pay taxes by illegal means. See Tax avoidance and tax evasion. Also don't forget that wikipedia is not a place for original research. It is a place for facts only. This kind of information is more suitable for a blog or a low quality newspaper. -Սահակ/Sahak (talk) 07:35, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget that tax evasion is a crime. So you need to bring proof of criminal activity and not simple tax avoidance. -Սահակ/Sahak (talk) 07:38, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Instead of outright deleting text, why not simply rename the section to something more appropriate? Serouj (talk) 07:53, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

FYI the facts are in the referenced articles. Serouj (talk) 07:55, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Self-promotion

During the last few days, two users (Lenagroup and GHErik, who exclusively edit this article, and no other Wikipedia articles) have been involved in self-promotion of Gagik Tsarukian. Activities include removal of text cataloging tax-evasion, list of business assets and business partners, as well as the addition of self-promoting, self-referenced claims such as "“Multi Group” ... provides huge amount of money for charity". Some of this text has been removed, although more work is needed for further cleanup of this article. Serouj (talk) 21:34, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Nickname

First off, I have no vested interest in the politics involved here. Never have, never will.

I removed the reference to his "common nickname of Dodi Gago" because it doesn't work out. The reference provided went to an article as to whether or not that is his common nickname. So there's a Catch-22: you can't use a debate about commonality to establish that it is accepted commonly. Additionally, by running it through a translator, it seems to be an insult and per WP:BLP if an independent, non-politically motivated source can be found to verify the nickname then and only then is it acceptable to Wikipedia. Keegan (talk) 05:06, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Great. Here is the independent, non-politically motivated source:

Ishkhanyan, Vahan (March 3, 2006). "Mean Streets: A rare look at Armenia's Capital clans". ArmeniaNow. Retrieved June 29, 2009. One of the most powerful, most infamous and famous "akhperutyuns" of Yerevan is Gagik "Dodi Gago" Tsarukyan, who is a close associate of the President's family, and a Member of Parliament since 2003. {{cite news}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)

Serouj (talk) 05:18, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

All right. Keegan (talk) 06:29, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Hello everyone. It is very interesting that such debates exist in Wikipedia, but the problem is that these debates are becaming from scientific ones(aim to find the truth)into "political" one(doesnt matter whether right or wrong, just prove that you are right).

Let's understand the situation dear Keegan and Serouj. One thing is nickname(Margaret Thetcher-iron lady) BUT another thing is offending nickname with slang words. Even more, ArmeniaNow media(the one to that Serouj posted the link) already edited the article. What I want to tell, is that I think all self-respectful Armenian medias would edit this horrible slang addressed to Gagik Tsarukyan if they know that it will serve as link to Wikipedia. Right now, dear Serouj, please understand that no matter what kind of political views you have. No one has the right to harm other person.Lenagroup (talk) 10:06, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

All of the crime family / brotherhood / akhperutyuan / mafia bosses in Armenia and in other parts of the world have nicknames, and they are included in their respective Wikipedia articles. Sometimes these names may not be charming. See Sammy Gravano, John Gotti, Anthony Spilotro, etc etc etc (As far as I know, "Dod" refers to his father. "Dodi Gago" means Dod's Gago, with "Gago" being short for "Gagik." You know VERY well that his nickname is widely used to refer to him in Armenia and even in print media, and like other articles, it has its right place in this article.) Serouj (talk) 16:18, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Here is another third-party, independent source citing the nickname prominently:

Danielyan, Emin (March 3, 2006). "ARMENIA: "OLIGARCHIC" PARTY GAINING GROUND AHEAD OF 2007 VOTE". Eurasianet.org. Retrieved June 30, 2009. Tsarukian, better known to most Armenians as Dodi Gago, is thought to be the wealthiest and most influential of Armenia's top government-connected entrepreneurs, owning over a dozen big businesses and living in a huge villa perched on a hilltop overlooking the northern outskirts of Yerevan. Like other "oligarchs," Tsarukian moves around in a motorcade of luxury cars with virtually identical license plates, surrounded by intimidating bodyguards. {{cite news}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)

Serouj (talk) 16:36, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Good morning. Once more I want to mention that it is not acceptable to use offending words, slangs and non-formal speaking while writing an article about a living person. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Erik1987ghazaryan (talk • contribs) 05:14, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

What part of this article do you think is "offending"? that he is an oligarch? That he shows little to any profit on some of his enterprises? His widely used nickname? Serouj (talk) 05:31, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Dear Serouj,

First-the words you are using is an offending nickname. You know what it means, and it shouldn't appear in encyclopedia.

Second-If you go on behaving as Master of Wikipedia(pointing discussions on some topics are over or not, or threatening that Wikipedia will block my account) I will take appropriate, legal steps.

Hope we understand each other.

I am deleting the slang, offending and non-formal words because encyclapedia is not a place to write slang words.

I am deleting the information about the hilltop villa because it is not an appropriate information to be posted as basic information(If you want, you can add this information in Biography).

Looking forward to your response. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Erik1987ghazaryan (talk • contribs) 09:22, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi there, all disputes will be moderated within Wikipedia. "Legal steps" don't apply here, I'm sorry to tell you. The fact that Gagik Tsarukyan is an oligarch is well-referenced from reliable sources, as is his nickname. His hilltop villa is relevant at an editor's discretion, as is the fact that he posts little earnings on many of his companies. And yes, if you continue to delete text that is referenced using reliable sources, then it's considered vandalism and I invited you to read in full Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. Serouj (talk) 19:44, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

By the way, there is a LOT more information that I can add from RELIABLE SOURCES that would seem extremely "offensive" to you. For example, I can write about the "akhperutyuns" ("brotherhoods") of Yerevan and in particular about Tsarukyan's akhperutyun. At some point I will when I get the time, so until then, consider the introduction of this article as it is to be quiet generous. I invite you to read Mean Streets: A rare look at Armenia’s Capital clans. Serouj (talk) 19:48, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Dear Serouj, as I see, you don't want to discuss, but want to threaten me. So it is your choise to use"reliable" sources you want. I just know some laws of USA and Armenia. Both confirming that no one has the right to use offencive words to another person(here I will write in Armenian in order to be more correct(առաջին-վիրավորական բառեր օգտագործել չի կարելի որևէ մեկի դեմ(translation-it is not allowed to use offencive words towards any person), երկրորդ-յուրաքանչյուր մարդ կարող է վերականգնել իր ոտնահարված իրավունքները(translation-everyone can regain his/her violated rights. So I am taking out the offending words and also the hilltop and other things. Once more I advice you to put his address in more appropriate place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Erik1987ghazaryan (talk • contribs) 12:54, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Your deletion of relevant and key data from this person's article constitutes vandalism:

1. His nickname: "Dodi Gago" -- see:

Ishkhanyan, Vahan (March 3, 2006). "Mean Streets: A rare look at Armenia's Capital clans". ArmeniaNow. Retrieved June 29, 2009. One of the most powerful, most infamous and famous "akhperutyuns" of Yerevan is Gagik "Dodi Gago" Tsarukyan, who is a close associate of the President's family, and a Member of Parliament since 2003. {{cite news}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help), AND

Danielyan, Emin (March 3, 2006). "ARMENIA: "OLIGARCHIC" PARTY GAINING GROUND AHEAD OF 2007 VOTE". Eurasianet.org. Retrieved June 30, 2009. Tsarukian, better known to most Armenians as Dodi Gago, is thought to be the wealthiest and most influential of Armenia's top government-connected entrepreneurs, owning over a dozen big businesses and living in a huge villa perched on a hilltop overlooking the northern outskirts of Yerevan. Like other "oligarchs," Tsarukian moves around in a motorcade of luxury cars with virtually identical license plates, surrounded by intimidating bodyguards. {{cite news}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)

Both reliable sources.

1. He is seen as the most influential of Armenia's government-connected "oligarchs, owning over a dozen big businesses and living in a very large villa on a hilltop overlooking the northern outskirts of Yerevan. -- see:

"Prominent Oppositionist Set To Lead Armenian 'Oligarchic' Party". Armenia Liberty (RFE/RL). January 11, 2006. Retrieved June 20, 2009. Tsarukian is seen as the most influential of Armenia's government-connected "oligarchs" who are not averse to flaunting their wealth amid widespread poverty. They usually live in huge mansions and travel in motorcades made up of luxury cars with virtually identical license plates. Most of them hold sway in a particular area of the country. Tsarukian and Aleksanian, for example, ran unopposed and were easily elected to parliament from their de facto fiefdoms in the last election held in May 2003. {{cite news}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)

That you don't agree or don't LIKE these facts doesn't give you the right to delete them!

Serouj (talk) 17:58, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Oligarch

The word "oligarch" is not offensive. It describes the person as he is. Serouj (talk) 09:32, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Edit Warring

Hi all. There seems to be a content dispute regarding nicknames of Gagik Tsarukyan. I have fully protected the page due to an on going edit war which can be seen in the history of the article. Please discuss the issue on the talk page first rather than undoing each other's edits. I will unprotect the page once an agreement has been reached. Cheers, FASTILY ^(TALK) 06:46, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Erik1987ghazaryan

If you have another reliable sources than "The Times", Radio Free Europe and Routledge publ., you can use them in article. But don't delete information from reliable sources. Razbirzti Guru (talk) 20:28, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

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