Talk:East Palestine, Ohio, train derailment/Archives/ 1

Disaster

I am not sure what the status was during renaming efforts, but this event is currently clearly labeled as a disaster in news sources (1). The most prominent Ohio politicians have described it as a disaster (2, 3, 4, 5) and are requesting a major disaster declaration (6), and major FEMA and US and Ohio EPA involvement supports the naming as well. ɱ (talk) 20:06, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

If nobody has any comments or objections to this, I will request that the page is moved. ɱ (talk) 12:15, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Removal of Police Comment Under Health Information.

I propose that the section with the officer stating "The Guardian reported, quoting a police officer who presents at the incident: "We were never told about the cargo on the train and we were never told to wear protective clothing, although it did not matter because our Personal protective equipment (PPE) dates back to 2010". Ohio citizens fear health hazards near train sites while no one is being held answerable." The section does not provide any factual information from an expert. Grinhelm (talk) 12:37, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Are you suggestion the Guardian is unreliable or the police officer was not telling the truth? I'm not sure what you're concerned with here as you've not indicated who the expert would supposedly be, nor what is not factual in this instance. If there are experts who refute the health hazard present at the spill this could also be introduced, however, I'd be surprised if such expert testimony exists. Kcmastrpc (talk) 23:39, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: Why would this need to be "factual information from an expert" to be included? Actualcpscm (talk) 11:23, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

The section "Second Ohio derailment" should be removed due to lack of relevence.

The section discussion the second Ohio derailment should be removed. There have been six other rail accidents but those are not mentioned. Grinhelm (talk) 15:55, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Since there seems to be renewed media interest in train crashes (for whatever reason), should we consider spinning off to another article, "2023 Rail Accidents in the United States"? Kcmastrpc (talk) 16:18, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

The Springfield train wreck is captured on the page List of rail accidents (2020–present). The page shows major rail accidents in 2023. Grinhelm (talk) 16:20, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Meh. It isn't very relevant, but RSs have mentioned the two accidents together so following that coverage is a reasonable default. VQuakr (talk) 16:44, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Maybe create 2023 United States freight derailments or a similar article to cover all of these derailments? InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 17:54, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 6 April 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. The principal result of the discussion was a consensus that the current title is more WP:RECOGNIZABLE than the proposed one. A weaker consensus also emerged that the proposed title is more WP:PRECISE than necessary. (non-admin closure) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 15:27, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

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2023 Ohio train derailment → 2023 East Palestine train derailment – WP:PRECISE would justify that a more precise title would be better suited for the article, and the previous move discussion did not show substantial opposition to mentioning East Palestine. Data from Google Trends shows that East Palestine gained more searches (albeit marginally) than "Ohio train derailment", and Google searches for the incident provide more results for "East Palestine" train rather than "Ohio train derailment", by almost double the amount of queries. All in all, while the improvement is marginal from changing the title to include East Palestine, it conforms with our policies and general trends better. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 17:53, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

@InvadingInvader: the previous move discussion, [1] did show rough consensus against moving to "East Palestine" as too obscure. What has changed since then? Your Google trends search compared apples to oranges by only including "train derailment" in the Ohio string. Here is the corrected one, with the caveat that this is a pretty useless way of looking at things in general. VQuakr (talk) 18:07, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

When an event happens in a small town, people search for it at a much higher rate without including what actually happened. It is necessary in this case to omit "train derailment" from East Palestine, as people very well (in my data at least) did search for it. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 18:11, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

ETA - you made a similar error on the Google searches; when corrected, "2023 Ohio train derailment" is clearly more common. Probably best to withdraw this move nom since it's solely predicated on errors. VQuakr (talk) 18:11, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

"2023 Ohio train derailment" has 18,000 results. Also think about why people searched for East Palestine in the first place; it was because of the train derailment. People would search for Ohio not only because of the train derailment but also Ohio University, Ohio facts and figures, the memes about Ohio which have recently appeared on TikTok... InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 18:15, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Yup, which is roughly 10x as many hits as "2023 east palestine train derailment". The string has "train derailment" in it; arguments about TikTok are nonsensical. VQuakr (talk) 18:20, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Claiming that arguments involving TikTok are nonsensical is inaccurate. Is it as important as everything else? No. However, should it be mentioned when it comes to what readers search and with attention to rational information disambiguating? Absolutely. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 19:59, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

No, such arguments are completely, indefensibly, ridiculous. Equal-footing search terms exclude tiktok from both sets of search results equally, and show a ~~5x-10x balance of results in favor of the status quo title. Given that it is demonstrably incorrect or fallacious in every aspect, the most generous description of this nomination that can be given is "incompetent." VQuakr (talk) 20:33, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

How is popular culture and the thoughts of the youth ridiculous? We should be encyclopedic, but not completely exclusive to academia. We aren't anyways; if we are, we would not have articles on My Little Pony and Mario Kart. Moreover, Ohio's status as a meme has been covered by the press, see Yahoo Sports, HITC, and Dextero as examples. We aren't Citizendium. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 21:39, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

It's a ridiculous argument because none of those links will show up in either search string. It's an obviously irrelevant distraction. VQuakr (talk) 22:41, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

I agree with this. If I’m looking for the news on this, just searching for the town name would give me hits, but I’d have to further narrow it down if I were to use the state as a search term. BhamBoi (talk) 04:31, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose and snow close since the proposed move target unambiguously fails WP:COMMONNAME. The WP:PRECISION concern is unfounded as there has only been one notable 2023 Ohio train derailment to date. VQuakr (talk) 18:20, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
• Consider also that the US EPA names the disaster as the East Palestine train derailment. Don't forget that there are other trains which derailed in Ohio in 2023, such as one near Cincinnati and another Norfolk Southern train in Springfield. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk)

  And are any of those other derailments notable enough for Wikipedia? Trainsandotherthings (talk) 12:18, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Also note that national some news sources call it "East Palestine train derailment" BhamBoi (talk) 04:34, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. Proposed name is unrecognisable to many. In fact the current redirect from East Palestine should be changed, as the phrase East Palestine is at least ambiguous, a town with a population of less than 5000 can't compete as primary topic against the other meanings of Eastern Palestine. Andrewa (talk) 02:22, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.