Talk:Early Caliphate navy

Feedback from New Page Review process

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Grand..

scope_creepTalk 02:17, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

• probably need help for some language improvements and reference links clean-ups Ahendra (talk) 02:41, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Harv errors, reference errors

Hi @Ahendra: Bowersock 2013, that starts on reference 42, doesn't have bibliography reference. There is a cite book |author-link=Glen Bowersock |first=Glen W. |last=Bowersock |title=The Throne of Adulis: Red Sea Wars on the Eve of Islam |publisher=Oxford University Press |year=2013 |isbn=978-0-19-973932-5}} reference in the bib section but it seems to be damaged. Can you fix that, see if it fixes the Bowersock 2013 reference. I continue working on the rest. I see if I can try and fix it. scope_creep^Talk 10:42, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

hi, sure. i will check later. seems missed by me, my badAhendra (talk) 10:47, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

• ::The Bosworth 1996 references, Battle of the Masts is missing a citation. scope_creep^Talk 10:49, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

LIs this the C. Edmund Bosworth 1996 references: [1] scope_creep^Talk 10:54, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Correct, thats Bosworth's works which i meant when i first include it, seems i forgot to put the link earlier, my bad Ahendra (talk) 20:31, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

• ::Refs 80, 82, Lynch 2016 are missing a citation. scope_creep^Talk 11:01, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

I can put it in now. scope_creep^Talk 22:15, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Is that this: [Lynch, Ryan J. (July–September 2016). "Cyprus and Its Legal and Historiographical Significance in Early Islamic History". Journal of the American Oriental Society. 136 (3): 535–550.] That was a two second search. It says Lynch p.539, so the page numbers seem to link in, but it was a 2 second search. Mentioned here: [2] Mentioned he in the description. scope_creep^Talk 11:04, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

I'll check it first Ahendra (talk) 20:20, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

i've been check it. Yes it is true its Lynch work about Cyprus in 2016 which u mentioned. thanks for ur notice, done adding the link Ahendra (talk) 20:20, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

• Ref 122. Kennedy 2004 There is not citation for this. scope_creep^Talk 11:32, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

done corrected, i should be Kennedy 2014, but i accidentally wrote it as Kennedy 2004 Ahendra (talk) 22:10, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

• Ref 95 PmbZ, Abū l-A'war (#71) Has no citation in the bibliography section. scope_creep^Talk 12:03, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Done, i forgot to add Bosworth, 1996 reference before Ahendra (talk) 22:21, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

• Ref 121 is damaged. No harv link. There seems to be several kennedy's. scope_creep^Talk 12:08, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
• Ref 96 and 97. Conrad 1992 is missing the citation in bibliography section. scope_creep^Talk 12:15, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Noted Ahendra (talk) 20:12, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ahendra: Are you wanting to have a go at fixing some of these references. scope_creep^Talk 20:05, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

• @Scope creep: Sure, i will try to fix those references soon Ahendra (talk) 20:12, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ahendra: Thats good. It's important you have a go at fixing them, as your new article has at least a 20 broken references. Fixing the referencing the referencing when you finish the artice is an important step. scope_creep^Talk 20:15, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

sure, thanks for noticing it Ahendra (talk) 20:16, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ahendra: I sound as though I'm preaching, but when you see these beautiful articles and they're no quite right, it pains me. scope_creep^Talk 20:32, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

@Scope creep: Haha no problem, sire. on the contrary i looked for more constructive critics for the article improvement so it hopefully can increase its quality per Wikipedia assessment Ahendra (talk) 20:36, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Broken references

Hi Ahendra, it is 13, 55, 80-83, 100, 103, 111, 113, 121, 154, 155, 167, 172, and 198 are the references that are broken. scope_creep^Talk 20:38, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

That is the Bothworth done and linked. scope_creep^Talk 22:18, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

That is the Shoufani ref fixed. First column completed. Looks better already. scope_creep^Talk 22:20, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

• @Ahendra: I found Lynch 2016 ref. Is it this.

Lynch, Ryan J. (2016). "Cyprus and Its Legal and Historiographical Significance in Early Islamic History". Journal of the American Oriental Society. 136 (3): 535–550. doi:10.7817/jameroriesoci.136.3.0535. JSTOR 10.7817/jameroriesoci.136.3.0535.

@Ahendra: Can you check that ref about for ref 111 and 113. scope_creep^Talk 23:55, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

i've checked 111 and fixed it. but for 113 i find its difficult to find it since i didnt remember i write that one. i think its someone's works, maybe should just remove that one? or try to find it first? Ahendra (talk) 05:49, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

I would take 113 out, if you don't need it. You already have a ref on the sentence. I think its probably been taken from another article or something. Can you take a look at 80 and 82. I've posted the Lynch 2016 above. Can you check if its the right one and I'll post it in. scope_creep^Talk 12:03, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

wutt. i'll repair it asap. seems Sebeos Howard Johnston were removed by accident. Ahendra (talk) 14:29, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Reworking

• @Ahendra: I see the ref for Lynch is now. Good. The next two refs is ref 94 and 103.
  • Ref 94 is PmbZ, Abū l-A'war (#71). The PmbZ is a template: at Template:Prosopographie der mittelbyzantinischen Zeit
  • Ref 103 just has the date. It is missing the authors list.

scope_creepTalk 14:00, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Ref 103 was already present, just needed the formatting fixed. That leaves ref 94. scope_creep^Talk 14:04, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

right, thx to some1 who found it before me.. it seems he imported from Mu'awiya I article. judging by edit historyAhendra (talk) 14:06, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ahendra: I'm getting some help on it. scope_creep^Talk 18:19, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ahendra: That is ref fixed. Next ref is Ref 112. Tripathi 1989

yes, i will try helping find Tripathi 1989. Ahendra (talk) 21:57, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

That looks like this:

• Tripathi, Rama Shankar (1989), History of Kanauj: To the Moslem Conquest, Motilal Banarsidass, ISBN 978-81-208-0404-3

Would that be correct? scope_creep^Talk 18:27, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

thx a lot for ur grt works, that are correct.. apparently i missed that one Ahendra (talk) 21:55, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ahendra: Right I'll put that in, if it is the right one. scope_creep^Talk 12:53, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Ref 152 is the next one.

• Kennedy 2004, p. 45. Harv error: link from CITEREFKennedy2004 doesn't point to any citation.

@Ahendra: On the third column now. There is two Kennedy refs. Another one at Ref 173 Kennedy 2007, pp. 332–334. Harv error: link from CITEREFKennedy2007 doesn't point to any citation.

Doing the 152 first. scope_creep^Talk 12:57, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

This is Hugh N. Kennedy. He has two books out in 2004. They're is a ref on that. scope_creep^Talk 13:06, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ahendra: I think it is this:

• Kennedy, Hugh N. (2004). The Prophet and the Age of the Caliphates: The Islamic Near East from the 6th to the 11th Century (Second ed.). Harlow: Longman. ISBN 978-0-582-40525-7.

from Umayyad Caliphate. Would that be correct? scope_creep^Talk 13:19, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

i can't think any other way. likely correct, sire. nice find anyway Ahendra (talk) 13:26, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

I'll put that in. scope_creep^Talk 13:39, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

• Ref 155 Hinds p. 264
• Hinds, M. (1993). "Muʿāwiya I b. Abī Sufyān". In Bosworth, C. E.; van Donzel, E.; Heinrichs, W. P. & Pellat, Ch. (eds.). The Encyclopaedia of Islam, Second Edition. Volume VII: Mif–Naz. Leiden: E. J. Brill. pp. 263–268. ISBN 978-90-04-09419-2.

Seems to be the only can be.

• Ref 156 Jandora 1986

Came from the Mu'awiya I article

• Jandora, John W. (1986). "Developments in Islamic Warfare: The Early Conquests". Studia Islamica (64): 101–113. doi:10.2307/1596048. JSTOR 1596048.

Hi @Ahendra: What do you think of these two. Seem fairly straightforward. scope_creep^Talk 13:52, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

yes thats right, i remember that Jandora journal were the one i used for the article reference. does by some mistake it removed? if so plz help to insert it again. regarding Kennedy, its pretty obvious. Ahendra (talk) 14:11, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

---

@Ahendra:

• Ref 200 is missing a page number.

scope_creepTalk 14:26, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

---

Ref 168 is

• Friedmann, Yohanan, ed. (1992). The History of al-Ṭabarī, Volume XII: The Battle of al-Qādisīyyah and the Conquest of Syria and Palestine. SUNY Series in Near Eastern Studies. Albany, New York: State University of New York Press. ISBN 978-0-7914-0733-2.

Ref 169 Baladhuri 2011 I think is Al-Baladhuri, just needs renamed.

Ref 173 Kennedy 2007, pp. 332–334

• Kennedy, Hugh (2007). The Great Arab Conquests: How the Spread of Islam Changed the World We Live In. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania: Da Capo Press. ISBN 978-0-306-81740-3.

Hi @Ahendra:, here is the last three references that need fixed. One needs renamed, one needs this template, and first one needs the template as well. Can you check them. scope_creep^Talk 17:34, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ahendra: It is only two that needs done. scope_creep^Talk 00:49, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

sure thing, good works so far, i'll check it tonight. Ahendra (talk) 05:17, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

I'd thought your finished the article, that was the reason I was reminding you that there was still two to do, but I see your still working on it. There is more to do now, but it a great article. scope_creep^Talk 13:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

---

Ref 228 is

• Friedmann, Yohanan, ed. (1992). The History of al-Ṭabarī, Volume XII: The Battle of al-Qādisīyyah and the Conquest of Syria and Palestine. SUNY Series in Near Eastern Studies. Albany, New York: State University of New York Press. ISBN 978-0-7914-0733-2.

Ref 76 {{cite book|last1=Strange|first1=Guy Le|author-link1=Guy Le Strange|title=Collected works of Guy Le Strange : the medieval Islamic world|date=30 May 2014|publisher=I.B. Tauris|location=London|isbn=9781848856707|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=VqCoAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA362}

Ref 77 Donner, Fred M. (2014). The Early Islamic Conquests. Princeton University Press.

Ref 233 Kennedy 2007, pp. 332–334

• Kennedy, Hugh (2007). The Great Arab Conquests: How the Spread of Islam Changed the World We Live In. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania: Da Capo Press. ISBN 978-0-306-81740-3.

Hi @Ahendra:, Here is a another block of references. The Guy Le Strange reference is four volume, I'm not sure what volume it is. scope_creep^Talk 21:39, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Le strange huh? sure, ill check it later Ahendra (talk) 22:21, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

References needing fixed

Hi @Ahendra:, there is still references that need fixed. Specifically Ref 77, 78, 155, 163, 230 and 235. I think the Kennedy reference is this:

Kennedy 2007, pp. 332–334

• Kennedy, Hugh (2007). The Great Arab Conquests: How the Spread of Islam Changed the World We Live In. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania: Da Capo Press. ISBN 978-0-306-81740-3.

I think I can fix the Taha, p. 89 ref.

scope_creepTalk 16:55, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

sure. ill check it later Ahendra (talk) 23:45, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

@Scope creep: yes it is correct, can you fix it when im not online? Ahendra (talk) 06:17, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

@Ahendra: Yes I can do, but the reference needs to be checked to make sure it is the right one, before it goes in. I've put the Kennedy reference in. How about trying to fix them today? scope_creep^Talk 10:46, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

@Ahendra: Ref 77 is broken. Le Strange 2014. I had a look for this one and couldn't identify it. The same with reference 155. It looks damaged but couldn't identify it. Ibn Idhari, 1980 & 42 scope_creep^Talk 10:49, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Sure, i will try to help later as i can regarding 77 & 155. i must try to analize it carefully, since seems it was copyedit from other article. Ahendra (talk) 10:54, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

I've fixed 155; it was fairly clearly just missing |p=. #163 could well be Taha (2017), present in the source list, but somebody with access to the source should check that (I can't see it on gbooks). #230 might be Tabari (1992) from the source list since Friedmann was an editor on that volume, but that's speculation on my part. Le Strange (2014) is present in Arfajah (from a search for "Le Strange 2014" with the speech marks in the Wikipedia search; I've not checked that it's the correct source). I've also fixed some indenting on this talk page: hope nobody minds. Best, Wham2001 (talk) 11:05, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Wham2001: I can't identify Ref 230. Friedmann 1992, p. 183, note 682. scope_creep^Talk 11:07, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

@Scope creep I strongly suspect that it's Tabari, Muhammad ibn Jarir (1992). The history of at-Tabari Vol. 12 (Yohanan Friedmann ed.). ISBN 9780791407332. (present in the source list), but gbooks won't show me p. 183 of that volume. Perhaps it will for you since their access rules change geographically. Wham2001 (talk) 11:15, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

@Wham2001: The Le Strange ref looks right. Same sentence in both articles. @Ahendra: Can we put that in, for ref 77? scope_creep^Talk 11:11, 19 December 2021 (UTC

ah, good job! u found it before me. just add it then Ahendra (talk) 11:19, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Cooolio. I think the Tabari edition is on archive.org, the 20 volumes, so I'm downloading it right now. 11:25, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Another one fixed. scope_creep^Talk 11:29, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

@Ahendra: and @Wham2001:. That seems to be it. Volume 12, p. 183, note 682. That is some book. 40 volumes including an index volume. How do we fix it. Is it already in the sources list. scope_creep^Talk 14:45, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

hmm, thats gonna need googlebook membership haha. anyway, my suggestion we should narrowing the search, History of Tabari volume 12 were authored by Ehsan al yater & Yohanan Friedmann. should we revamp the source? Ahendra (talk) 15:02, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

@Ahendra: I have updated the source, changed the titled, added the isbn, the publisher, the series and the lccn. scope_creep^Talk 15:12, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

yes, i noticed. good job so far Ahendra (talk) 15:14, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Excellent stuff – just one error left to fix, I think! Wham2001 (talk) 15:18, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Last one

• @Ahendra: and @Wham2001: Now for the last the Taha one. Ref 163. I've no clue what this is. It is in the source. So it is this: Taha, Abdulwahid Dhanun (31 October 2017). Muslim conquest and settlement of north africa and spain. Routledge. ISBN 978-1-138-68967-1. So it just needs the date added 2017 to the ref? scope_creep^Talk 15:20, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

That is them done. Thanks for the help @Wham2001:. scope_creep^Talk 15:46, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Ref 132

• @Ahendra: a Ref 132 is needing repaired. It seems to be a duplicate ref with both a ref tag and a harv template, for the same ref. I've reverted my edit, since needs looked at. scope_creep^Talk 12:07, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

sure, ill check it later. Ahendra (talk) 12:25, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

@Ahendra: Ref 132 still needs fixed. scope_creep^Talk 10:50, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

@Scope creep: sure, gotta check it latter Ahendra (talk) 11:22, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

ref 132 done fixed, Ahendra (talk) 20:21, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Title

The current title is inelegant ('caliphate' instead of 'caliphal') and unclear (what is 'early'?). Given its length, I wonder if it shouldn't be split between Navy of the Rashidun Caliphate and Umayyad navy. —Srnec (talk) 01:53, 11 May 2023 (UTC)