Talk:Deora, Colorado

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Measuring distances

@TulGuy: I think we should settle our dispute about how distances should be measured in this article. In my experience, distances between locations are typically measured using Euclidean distance (an "as the crow flies" distance). The simplest way to calculate this is by finding a point on a Google Map, right-clicking, and utilizing the "measure distance" feature. This is more useful to readers than a Manhattan distance for many reasons, the most important being that not all Wikipedia readers are driving (or walking or taking public transit). They just want to know how far one place is from another. A Manhattan distance can also be misleading or impossible to determine, as may be seen at Alcatraz Island, where the distance to San Francisco is almost certainly a Euclidean measure. At Edgemoor, Delaware and Penns Grove, New Jersey, the Euclidean distance (and distance by canoe) between them is 1.5 miles, while the driving distance is 18 miles, and the walking distance 60 miles. You can see the shortcomings of insisting--as you have--that driving distance be used on this article. There is nothing at WP:USCITIES insisting that distances be added, though many articles include distances because they provide readers a sense of "the settlement's context in the region". However, Wikipedia is not a travel guide, and distances listed should be a Euclidian distance, not how long or how far you need to go to get there in your truck. Magnolia677 (talk) 00:53, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Measuring distances (the sequel)

@Magnolia677: You misunderstand the nature of our dispute. I have no problem at all with a statement about the direct distance between Deora and Springfield. Instead, it seems you have a problem with including driving distance, to the point of deleting any such statement, even if it is relevant, accurate and documented. I do not see any basis for this. Which distance measurement better conveys the isolation of Deora, Colorado—the 23 -mile straight-line distance to the nearest town with any hospital or services, or the 41-mile driving distance townspeople would actually have to go to get to Springfield? This has nothing to do with trying to create a travel guide. Further, on the documentation side, you have only been able to provide maps that show Deora, but not the direct distance to Springfield, unless the user understands Google Maps and does some clicking around on his or her own. The documentation you deleted showed the driving distance and the route, no clicking required. Which was better? So no, I do not see that you have made a compelling case that material on road distance should be deleted. Both measurements are perfectly reasonable, and specifying one does not require the exclusion of the other. (You could have simply added new material to what was already there. The entry on Deora is a stub that is what, four sentences long? A few additional words and an additional citation would hardly have been “too much.”)

In my dealings on Wikipedia, I try not to hit the Undo button on other users’ material, since I think most people consider that imperious and dismissive of others’ work. We all understand Wikipedia is a collaborative effort. Another person’s entry may not be what I would have said, or how I would have said it; but, if it is relevant, accurate and documented, I welcome it to stay, perhaps with some tweaking or the addition of some other material if warranted. If someone tweaks or adds something to my work, that’s fine too. But I think as users we almost have an obligation to stand up to anyone whose actions seem to suggest that they believe only their opinion matters, particularly when they revert the work of others without a real solid reason.

So that’s my position and why I made such a big deal out of this. If it causes anyone to think twice before hitting the Undo button on someone else’s entry, then my work in Deora, Colorado is done. You can do what you like with page; it is my present to you. Merry Christmas.

NOTE: please sign your comments with 4 four tildas (see bottom of your Preferences page) • Sbmeirow • Talk • 23:39, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

@TulGuy: I did not encounter any source which described Deora as "isolated", and although you may feel the driving distance should be included because it "conveys the isolation of Deora", original research and personal interpretations of editors should not to be included in articles. Is there any other reason you think the driving distance should be included? Magnolia677 (talk) 17:02, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

@Magnolia677: That's not the question. The question is, why are you insisting on it being deleted? The best you've come up with is, we're not writing a travelogue. Now you've tried to throw in something about original research. I'm not writing a travelogue; I've never recommended anyone visit Deora, Colorado. And I didn't call it "isolated" in the entry you deleted. I've simply used a distance measurement method you don't like. Is it Wikipedia's official policy that distances calculated based on driving distance be deleted from articles? If not, it's simply your policy, developed from your opinion, and my opinion differs. Driving distance can be relevant for all sorts of real-world reasons. Take the Pfizer vaccine. It has to be kept very cold during transport, and arrangements to do that have to be made on the front end. So if you are advising the supplier in Springfield, do you tell them that they are transporting it 23 miles, or 41 miles? Indeed, if someone needs, or wants to supply, any sort of emergency services or packages or supplies or transport to school, or if someone in Deora needs to catch a plane at Springfield Municipal Airport (identifier 8V7), which measure is more relevant? And even if you believe direct distance is MORE relevant, I don't think you can make the argument with a straight face that the driving distance is IR-relevant. And you didn't mention my comment about being able to provide superior documentation for driving distance, no clicking around required. So I guess I can ask you, is there any other reason you think the driving distance should NOT be included? I don't think you've even come close to making that case.

NOTE: please sign your comments with 4 four tildas (see bottom of your Preferences page) • Sbmeirow • Talk • 23:22, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

In this situation, I don't recommend stating the distance to the county seat. For unincorporated communities, I typically state the distance to one of the nearest incorporated communities, and communities that are in the middle of "nowhere" I sometimes state the crossroad names too. You should use the word "approximately" on distances because of rounding issues. I feel it is fine to round farther distances to the nearest mile. I recommend the following: "It is located approximately ?? mi (?? km) north of Pritchett." where ?? distance should be replace with the convert template, and north could be northwest (I don't care). • Sbmeirow • Talk • 23:32, 15 December 2020 (UTC)