Talk:Colonial empire

Animated map

The animated map isn't animated. It just sits there on 1800. 138.162.128.54 (talk) 19:26, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

• Why China is absent on the map? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.209.221.130 (talk) 09:12, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
  • Why United States are present, since in 1800 they had no dependency?Lele giannoni (talk) 13:22, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

present colonial empires

In the list of empires some are marked as "present", but I find no explanation how it is determined whose empires are considered present. I assume that those listed here (UK, France, USA, New Zealand) are considered "present", but in the article Russia is also listed as such - maybe because of its Lists of active separatist movements (that contain members of the Unrepresented Nations and Peoples Organization and active insurgencies)? But as such are present in other cases too I find it strange to list Russia as "present" - maybe change it to 1991? Alinor (talk) 11:11, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Pre European Colonial Empires?

Uhmm, colonial empires existed before the European Age of Exploration. What about the ancient Phoenicians?72.89.142.185 (talk) 23:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Yup, and Carthago, and Greece, and Japan, and US, and Rome, and Persia, and Mongolia, and China... The definition of colony and colonialism makes virtually every nation that ever expanded its territory a colonial power. Therefore this article is very poor at the light of such definitions (see Wiki articles on colony and colonialism). 81.159.38.17 (talk) 12:14, 12 March 2012 (UTC) But wait. The article fails to give any citations of reliable sources on defining colonial empire.81.159.38.17 (talk) 12:17, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Further to that: the closest the article seems to come to defining "colonial empire" is to imply that it has something to do with establishing overseas territories for the purpose of trade. But if that is what it means, then the Russian Empire shouldn't count. And if Rusia is included, then why not include all the non-European contiguous continental empires (Ottoman and Chinese most significantly). And what about Japanese expansion into East Asia in the first half of the 20thC? Iapetus (talk) 13:29, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Russia had Alaska and other overseas territories. Do Ottoman territories in Europe and Africa count as overseas? You could get there by land, but it would be a long way around. Goustien (talk) 16:45, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

@Thomas.W:@Iapetus: The lead says colonial empires began in the 15th century, but the list includes earlier periods (under Norwegian and Ottoman). I think we need to find a standard definition of "colonial empire." Goustien (talk) 17:53, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

@Goustien: There's no need to change the definition, the only thing that needs to be done is removing Norway from the list, because there has never existed a Norwegian colonial empire (other than in the fantasies of a small number of modern-day Norwegian nationalists), and the Ottoman Empire came into existence during he 15th and 16th centuries, and thus fits the current definition... - Tom | Thomas.W ^talk 18:59, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

OK, I removed references to Norwegian and Ottoman expansion before the colonial era. Not sure if Norway after 1920 should remain. Goustien (talk) 22:17, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

Inclusion of Japan

I do not believe the term "colonial empire" only applies to Western powers. The Japanese empire also sprouted up around the time Europeans were establishing colonies around the world. It is even listed under "Modern empires" here on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_empire#Modern_empires therewillbehotcake (talk) 07:04, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

I agree. Japan had a big colonial empire in Asia. 24.59.92.67 (talk) 18:42, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Ottoman Empire as well

The Turkish Ottoman Empire was considered a colonial empire at the time, in vein with its European counterparts. therewillbehotcake (talk) 10:52, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

I have put them in the article, the Turks colonized much of the Balkans, North Africa and the Middle East. 84.104.219.2 (talk) 21:11, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Canada is incorrect

It seems to be included as part of Britain into the 20th century and doesn't leave until the second world war. That's an odd and arbitrary point to do this, considering Canada became an independent nation in 1867 and is generally thought to have effectively asserted independence during the first, not second, world war. Most Canadians would put the loss of British colonial possessions starting at 1867 and snowballing westward (with the exception of Newfoundland until after the second world war, of course). 23.233.58.250 (talk) 18:44, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Morocco

I do not believe that Morocco should be included. Though Western Sahara is listed on the United Nations list of Non-Self-Governing Territories, that doesn't make Morocco a colonial empire, instead more like the Ethiopian Empire. I do believe that the Union of South Africa, along with Australia and New Zealand, should be included though, just under British Empire, as they were really just extensions of the British Empire, though self-governing. Other Notes:

• I'm not sure the Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation would count as Russia

establishing a "colony," expansionism: yes, but colonialism: maybe not

• I think Spain and Portugal should include both the dates of the loss of their last colony (Spain: 1975-Western Sahara, Portugal: 1999-Macau or 2002-East Timor) and present (Spain: Canary Islands, Ceuta, Melilla, and Plazas de soberanía, Portugal: the Azores and Madeira)
• France and the Netherlands should both be listed as present (France: Overseas departments and territories of France and Netherlands: Dutch Caribbean)

Georges Cuvier (talk) 18:29, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Your point on Morocco not being a colonial empire seems arbitrary. The most valuable assets in the Western Sahara are the phosphate mines that were developed by the Spanish. This is the real reason why Morocco invaded. That Morocco can only control this area with a large military force and barriers disproves Morocco's national claim.

Suggestions for the maps

1. The maps are misleading because of their use of the equirectangular projection, which greatly increase the apparent relative sizes of lands nearer the poles relative to those nearer the equator. Both maps would be improved by being based on the Gall-Peters projection to give a more realistic demonstration of the relative areas.

2. On the static map, the areas that were occupied by more than one empire over the period shown should be shown by cross-hatched colours. The Japanese empire should be included.

3. There are two extra dates I think should be included in the animated map: 1790 to reflect the Spanish Empire at its greatest extent just before its decline after the Napoleonic wars and the changes in British and French territories in North America because of the Seven Years and American Revolutionary wars, and 1860 to reflect the situation in Africa before the "Scramble for Africa" took off. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.184.164.223 (talk) 00:27, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

"Germanic/Romance/Slavic"

I see no justification to group these colonial empires by the language families of their state's dominant language(s). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 20:44, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

I had exactly the same reaction when I noticed those the first time. Those irrelevant groupings should be eliminated--Lubiesque (talk) 21:17, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Ottoman is a European Empire

I have to repeat myself, but the Ottoman Empire is primarily a European Empire. They consider themselves as European, and so did the rest of Europe. When the Ottoman Empire took over Constantinople they declared themselves to be the Roman Emperor, and the successor to the Roman Empire. During the Tanzimat, the Ottoman Empire went through a period of Westernization, similar to the reign of Peter the Great. The Ottoman Empire was called the Sick Man of Europe. If the Russian Empire is considered European, so should the Ottomans. Mario98765 (talk) 05:14, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

We aren't guided by personal opinion, we are guided by what sources say per WP:RS. As its clear you are the IP editor blocked yesterday for edit warring and are currently evading a block I have updated my 3RR report. I'll also draw your attention to WP:BRD, which is good advice to stop further blocks. WCM_email 07:36, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Look, I do apologies for my previous actions, and I was unaware of the rules. However, my point is still correct. The Ottoman Empire was primarily a European Empire. The primary operated in Europe, their capital was in Europe, during the 19th century, they went through a period of westernization. The Ottoman Empire was called the "Sick Man of Europe" in WW1. All this suggest they should be classified as a European Empire. All I would like is for a reason for my edits to be rejected. Mario98765 (talk) 04:41, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Again you're giving examples that support your personal opinion, whereas we are guided by sources. If you look at this map] for example it is predominantly Asian/African. Your edits are rejected because they are your opinion guided by your original research and synthesise an edit. If you wish to change the article you need to provide sources and seek a consensus to change. I suggest you also read WP:BRD as a means to avoid a future block. If you continue down your previous path you will have a series of escalating blocks leading to a permanent one. WCM_email 06:50, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Loose definition of 'colonial empire' and 'empire'

'Colonial empire' is a colloquial term, and the definition of what actually is an 'empire' and what is not, is a disputed subject. Most colonial powers were monarchies, albeit not ruled by an emperor, for example the British Empire. Other colonial powers were not monarchies nor empires at all, and were instead democratic, usually a republic (For example the French colonial empire), while others were actual 'true' empires such as the German and Russian colonial empires. Add on the fact that colonies were neither fully independent, nor a part of the coloniser, and we have for a rather contentious topic. So if we go by the definition of a traditional empire, the only colonial empires to actually be, well, empires would be: Germany, Russia, Spain, France, and Austria. Æ's old account wasn't working (talk) 10:04, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

File:World 1920 empires colonies territory.png

The illustration of the map "File:World 1920 Empires Colonies Territory.png" is not correct in some points. The Ottoman Empire was occupied in southwest and southeastern Anatolia in 1920 after World War I, but these areas were never ceded. The Treaty of Sevres did not mention the cession of territory from south-west and south-east Anatolia. In 1919, Greece occupied the city of Izmir. Three years later the greeks, british, italians and french had withdrawn from these areas after the successful turkish war of independence. Therefore the map should be corrected.

The creator of this map (https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:World_1920_empires_colonies_territory.png) himself posted the following text in the link on 07/20/2018: "fix - by adding the Ottoman Empire before I considered some more of western Turkey under italian rule but I'm unsure so that I reverted; it remains unclear to me under whose rule north-western Turkey were in 1920". The creator was unsure himself. Nevertheless, the areas south-west and south-east anatolia were not separated from the Ottoman Empire in 1920, but still part of the Ottoman Empire. 2003:EC:724:9200:153E:716D:DE16:29E3 (talk) 09:35, 12 August 2023 (UTC)