Talk:Charismatic Adventism

Anachronistic terminology

Stumbled onto this article today. I am concerned that the use of "charismatic" for movements prior to the 20th century is anachronistic. The charismatic renewal movement, as I understand it, occurred in the mid 20th century; prior to that the term charismatic was not used to describe Christian movements with an emphasis on the Holy Spirit .Tonicthebrown (talk) 05:40, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm, good point. I believe the sources are certainly there for this article to be notable, but some of the terms (e.g. its title) may need discussion. Colin MacLaurin (talk) 05:52, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

It might just be possible that "Pentecostal Adventist" is more suitable, but again, my understanding is that the modern terminology dates only to the 20th century. What we are doing then is applying the terminology of a modern movement back into history, which I'm not sure is legitimate. It would be a bit like calling the Montanists a "charismatic" movement. Perhaps they should simply be described as "ecstatic Adventists" or Adventists who practised religious ecstasy in their worship. Or you might just possibly get away with a term like "proto-charismatic".

My suggestion on this is that the instances of the word "charismatic" in this article be replaced with "ecstatic", with an explanation that ecstatic worship in early Adventism resembles the worship of modern charismatics/Pentecostals. Tonicthebrown (talk) 08:54, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

We need to look at what the sources use. They often speak of "charismatic experiences/phenomena", "manifestations of the Holy Spirit", etc. Colin MacLaurin (talk) 06:37, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Another comment on terminology: Some Adventists

"Some Adventists, such as Jon Paulien, speculate that the charismatic movement could be such a unifying force. This is rejected by other Adventists, including those with charismatic leanings."

I know the above was written with good intent, but it also sounds a bit vague to me. When you consider that the membership of the Adventist church is in the millions of people, you could say "some Adventists" <fill in the blank here> and "other Adventists" <fill in the blank here>. It only takes 1 person on each side to be able to say "some" and "other". Yet for it not to be trivia, "some" should mean "some significant percentage". Is there a way to qualify this better?

Not trying to pick on this article as I've noticed other Adventist-related articles suffer the same problem. Here's a quote from the Seventh-day Adventist article.

"Some Adventists gather for Friday evening worship to welcome in the Sabbath, a practice often known as Vespers."

and one from Progressive Adventists

"...progressive Adventism has a stronger presence in some places..."

and one from my forthcoming article Blue Eyed Adventists"

"Some Adventists have blue eyes while other Adventists have brown eyes."

Well maybe that sarcasm was over the top, but Adventism is comprised of such diverse people worldwide you can say "some" about most anything and when you do, it means most nothing. Best wishes. Sdenny123 (talk) 06:49, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Your point is fair, and the guideline Wikipedia:Avoid weasel words describes what you mention. The first and third examples do have specific examples, as well as being a little weasely - specifically Jon Paulien is mentioned in the first, and West Coast vs. East Coast in the third. Please improve the statements if you can. Colin MacLaurin (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Historic Adventists

I replaced the section on Historic Adventists in #Commentators, for neutral point of view. However I did remove a dubious quote from Ron Spear. Also, I replaced the Des Ford commentary - the given reference did not give the impression he "strongly" criticised the movement. Please supply a different reference to validate this statement. Colin MacLaurin (talk) 09:16, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Cohutta Springs

Regarding the note in reference 56, Camp Cumby-Gay did go through a name change or two as the meaning of the word gay changed, but was eventually sold. Cohutta Springs is a different (newer) camp in a different location. Sdenny123 (talk) 14:22, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Sdenny123, I'll integrate that. My only source of information is the Adventist Periodical Index and Google searches (to come up with reliable sources though, I might add). Also nice to know someone actually follows this article. Colin MacLaurin (talk) 06:47, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

I've seen many a thesis that are not as well researched as this article. I did google for Camp Cumby-Gay and Atoka Springs and was surprised at how few references there were - but they the camp was gone by either name a couple of decades before the Internet picked up momentum. I recall there was an intermediate name very briefly but it conflicted with another nearby camp. Anyway that is all trivia for the purpose of this article - I just thought I'd mention the progression so we didn't revise history. Sdenny123 (talk) 13:23, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

You're too kind :-). Thanks for your assistance. Colin MacLaurin (talk) 06:55, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Black Adventists

I removed the link to this website: www.blacksdahistory.org. It is an informative site, and run by reliable sources. However, this article is about "Charismatic Adventism". Is there a subsection of the website which deals specifically with Black Adventists and charismatic expression? Colin MacLaurin (talk) 10:21, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Ernest Bruce Price, is he citable?

Hi all,

Thought I would open up a discussion about Ernest Bruce Price. He was recently cited on this article and then the information was removed because apparently Price was not considered notable enough. Before this, I have never heard of Price. But, let's see what we can find on him.

There are over fifty entries in Adventist Archives for E. Bruce Price. What I know so far is that he was an Australian Seventh-day Adventist pastor and evangelist who, later on, served as the Communication Secretary for the Greater Sydney Conference. On his own website he focuses his ministry on helping Jehovah's Witnesses become Adventists. You will notice in the excerpt deleted that two other valid conservative citations have been provided. i.e. in Pipim's book and the other an article in the conservative SDA-affiliated periodical, Adventists Affirm. From my study so far, I think it is reasonable to cite Price as a midlevel leader within the Australian SDA Church. DonaldRichardSands (talk) 21:48, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Deleted section... Conservative Adventist E. Bruce Price has criticized the churches, which he says were introduced to the world Adventist church in the 1980s. ref "Church Growth Experiments in Secular Australia" by E. Bruce Price in Here We Stand: Evaluating New Trends in the Church edited by Samuel Koranteng-Pipim. Berrien Springs, Michigan: Adventists Affirm, 2005. ISBN 0-9677622-1-9 (publisher's page). Chapter republished in Samuele Bacchiocchi's Endime Issues Newsletter No. 130 ref DonaldRichardSands (talk) 21:48, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Charismatic Adventism. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081120085309/http://www.atoday.com/magazine/2001/09/beating-upbeat-music to http://www.atoday.com/magazine/2001/09/beating-upbeat-music

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:44, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 external links on Charismatic Adventism. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://archive.is/20070624024929/http://www.atoday.com/magazine/1997/03/when-ck-isnt-calvin-klein-0 to http://www.atoday.com/magazine/1997/03/when-ck-isnt-calvin-klein-0
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090921020142/http://www.atoday.com/magazine/1998/03/washington-conference-disfellowships-independent-pastor-0 to http://www.atoday.com/magazine/1998/03/washington-conference-disfellowships-independent-pastor-0
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090921011135/http://www.atoday.com/magazine/1998/01/oregon-pastor-resigns-0 to http://www.atoday.com/magazine/1998/01/oregon-pastor-resigns-0
• Added archive https://archive.is/20130117071923/http://www.atoday.com/magazine/1998/05/anatomy-defrocking-0 to http://www.atoday.com/magazine/1998/05/anatomy-defrocking-0
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101202235924/http://www.audioverse.org/sermons/seriess/261/samuel-koranteng-pipim-trojan-horses.html to http://www.audioverse.org/sermons/seriess/261/samuel-koranteng-pipim-trojan-horses.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 01:02, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

Significance of article

If this category of Adventists is described as indeed very small, why does it merit its own article? Bluepenciltime (talk) 18:04, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Unsupported categorizing of charismatics are “liberal.” (However, even if this were corrected the greater problem with the article is its lack of significance as described in a discussion point above.) Bluepenciltime (talk) 18:08, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

NPOV Neutral Point of View is required by Wikipedia. All the external links continue to be exclusively one-sided, i.e., conservative Seventh-day Adventists condemning the worship features the article is supposed to describe neutrally. Bluepenciltime (talk) 00:47, 23 February 2020 (UTC)