Talk:Canada's National Ballet School

Opening heading

Does the word "based" imply that the School has branch locations elsewhere? If not, another word -- "located", perhaps -- might better be used, instead.

Requested move

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus to move at this time. Resubmit request if usage changes. --rgpk (comment) 17:31, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

The National Ballet School of Canada → Canada's National Ballet School — Relisted Vegaswikian (talk) 22:39, 19 January 2011 (UTC) "The National Ballet School of Canada" was officially renamed "Canada's National Ballet School" several years ago.--70.28.7.92 (talk) 15:27, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

• Weak oppose. The official name is indeed Canada's National Ballet School, but Google [1] [2] still prefers National Ballet School of Canada about 2:1. Either name is completely acceptable, and IMO Wikipedia is changing towards preferring official names in such circumstances, but I don't think we're there yet. But very interested to see how this one goes. Andrewa (talk) 18:13, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
• Support. Official names are best here, especially considering that the Ballet School are aware of this article and a generally supportive of Wikipedia. Can't do any harm. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) 21:50, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
• Support Andrewa's Google count would be more compelling if the very first hit for National Ballet School of Canada didn't lead to the organisation's website titled Canada's National Ballet School. In any case, such a Google search is meaningless unless it confines itself to the period after the change of name. Generally speaking, in the case of names of companies or organisations, we tend to go with the official version, unless there is a very good reason not to. There doesn't appear to be any such good reason in this case. Skinsmoke (talk) 13:00, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
  • Comment: I'm unconvinced that the first hit here has a great deal more significance than any other, and even less convinced that we should discount all of the older hits, see WP:RECENTISM. Strongly disagree that the search is meaningless, that's an overstatement at best. Very interested in the claim that we tend to go with the official version, unless there is a very good reason not to, that's certainly a direction that Skinsmoke and some others are pushing hard but is there evidence that they are succeeding to that extent? Or is the unless.. clause an out... it depends on what you mean by good reasons, and if that phrase is taken broadly enough then logically speaking the sentence doesn't claim anything at all. Interesting! No change of vote. Andrewa (talk) 03:51, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
• Comment Exactly when was the school "officially renamed"? I don't see any mention in the article. Is this just a case of "marketing" as opposed to "official name"? Noel S McFerran (talk) 06:22, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose Since nobody has presented any evidence that the school has been "officially renamed". In 2009 the organisation called itself "The National Ballet School" in its report to Revenue Canada. [3] Noel S McFerran (talk) 05:47, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
• Support Revenue Canada reports are often made under antiquated names, for instance McGill University files its returns as the "Royal Institution for the Advancement of Learning McGill University" while it has nonetheless earned a Wikipedia page under the name chosen by its marketing department and not the original charter. Because the ballet school's Wikipedia title doesn't match either institutional identification (judging by their website) OR the tax record, I would redirect the title discussion to a choice between "National Ballet School" or "Canada's National Ballet School", with preference owing to the practicality and obvious present use of the latter. 70.51.164.191 (talk) 04:01, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose In English, the school has always been known as The National Ballet School of Canada, and the company, The National Ballet of Canada (it's in the charter of the school). Recent administration has decided to put CANADA first for PR reasons (no official change of name can be found to put the name of the country, Canada, first). In fact, the school also goes by its bilingual name, l'École Nationale de Ballet du Canada, which would translate to The National Ballet School of Canada. The company, Le Ballet National du Canada. The pre-eminent dance critic and scholar, Michael Crabb lists the school as The National Ballet School of Canada in the Canadian Encyclopedia http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0005611 -- and the company http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=F1ARTF0005610 So, I would go with the authority there. I don't know why you say that "the latter is more pratical." FYI, Chase me ladies, I am a neutral party, but it seems like the modifications you are getting are NOT from disinterested writers. I monitor what I wrote and see that it keeps on getting changed, though. I would appreciate it if that didn't happen anymore. Thanks! BTW, I could research this even more if you like, but don't know if I could come up with much more than what their current PR department is trying to broadcast. It kind of reminds me of the airline, US Air, which after a major accident and ensuing financial crisis, dubbed itself US Airways to make it sound more elegant in its branding. Most still call it US Air, but the company actually changed its name legally in all official documents. McGill is referred to by its current and former students, faculty, and staff as McGill. In the case of The National Ballet School, I would think that its current and former students, faculty, staff, as well as company members and the company's artistic director might have a say about this that would be most forceful because schools, like people, should be called what they liked to be called. Until then, I think Mr. Crabb has decided it for us! — Preceding unsigned comment added by AlfajorNYC (talk • contribs) 12:00, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
  • Comment Granted that Crabb's article is several years old and still refers to "Canada's National Ballet School" in the text, you might also want to check his citations of which two refer to "Canada's National Ballet School" in their titles. Maybe you can find more recent scholarly sources that still use the old name? If the goal is to describe current usage, you might want to refer to the archive of newspaper articles available at http://www.nbs-enb.ca/about/news/default.aspx? 70.28.7.92 (talk) 19:06, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose WP:COMMONNAME per Andrewa's results. 64.229.101.119 (talk) 06:04, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
• SUPPORT the move to Canada's National Ballet School. This is the title under which the school currently markets its-self, and by default should be the preferred title for the article, with the other as a redirect. The school HAS been known as the National Ballet School of Canada, but as it stands at the moment, the school chooses to go by another name and it's not for Wikipedia users to question that fact. If we're being really picky, the article should go under the schools registered name, The National Ballet School Foundation, but I won't be proposing that Crazy-dancing (talk) 01:55, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

No, the National Ballet School Foundation is a separate - although related - organisation established in 1999. Noel S McFerran (talk) 03:33, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification on that, although I stand by my reasoning for supporting the change. I did a revamp of the article a few months ago, under the title Canada's National Ballet School, but someone obviously moved it.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Unilateral page move

Today User:Crazy-dancing unilaterally moved this page to "Canada's National Ballet School". There are certainly arguments in favour of that title, but a recent move request failed for lack of consensus. I have restored the "old" name. Noel S McFerran (talk) 20:48, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit request

Hello. As per my disclosure on my user page, I have created my account with the purpose of making edits to the page of Canada's National Ballet School. I am a paid, freelance communications consultant on a contract with the School, and they have asked me to update the Wikipedia page (rectifying errors and adding more up-to-date information). As this is my first time proposing edits like this, I am very willing to accept your help and respond to your comments or concerns. Thank you.

Edit request

Edit 1 Update Executive Director: Executive Director is now John Dalrymple. I can't provide a third-party source confirming this, but I can point to the School's own website noting the change: Edit 2 Incorrect information: The introductory paragraph currently states "The school, housed in four main buildings, is associated with the National Ballet of Canada . . .". While the establishment of the School was closely associated with the National Ballet of Canada, the two are now distinctly separate entities. The School is not a training grounds for future National Ballet of Canada dancers, nor do the organizations share any financial or leadership ties. Edit 3 Additional information: Under the "expansion" section, I'd like to propose adding the following. I propose these changes because the School has made significant changes to its programmatic activities over the last decade—this has been covered in news and other sources, and so I feel it has adequate source material to introduce to the Wiki: "In 2009, NBS celebrated its 50th anniversary with two large-scale initiatives: - Assemblée Internationale: a cross-cultural ballet festival that focuses on collaboration, partnership, and creative innovation in the ballet community. NBS hosted students, artistic directors, and artistic faculty members from 14 of the world’s top dance schools for a week of classes, rehearsals, conversations and performances. The festival was established as a quadrennial event." ( "- NBS Artistic Staff members organized a large, celebratory flash-mob at Toronto’s Eaton Centre. Online teaching videos were created to help participants learn the dance." "NBS has formally established a series of community-outreach initiatives, including in-person classes for children and youth in locations across Canada, classes for seniors and people living with Parkinson’s disease and dementia, and online teaching resources. In 2017, the School received a major grant from the Public Health Agency of Canada to support the expansion of these initiatives. The School also organizes the annual NBS Sharing Dance event in locations across Canada, which was selected as part of the Canada150 official celebrations." "The School celebrated its 60th anniversary in the 2019/2020 school year." Edit 4 Incorrect information: Under "activities" the current Wiki states, "The school's training prepares students to dance with the National Ballet of Canada, but also to dance with other major ballet companies in Canada and throughout the world." Again, as per the above suggestion, the implication here is that the School has a formal association with the National Ballet of Canada, which it does not. I suggest altering this to, "The school's training prepares students to dance with major ballet companies in Canada and throughout the world, including the National Ballet of Canada." Comment - I understand that references should not come from sources created by the Wiki subject, but I'd like to include this historical timeline, published by Canada's National Ballet School, as a secondary reference to some of the items mentioned above. I have tried to not include items mentioned in this timeline that did not also have third-party references elsewhere: https://www.nbs-enb.ca/About-NBS/Celebrating-60-Years References

Thank you for your consideration and assistance. Wigmachine77 (talk) 19:44, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Reply 12-JAN-2020

Below you will see where proposals from your request have been quoted with reviewer decisions and feedback inserted underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please read the enclosed notes within the proposal review section below for information on each request.  Spintendo  22:48, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Proposal review 12-JAN-2020

Executive Director is now John Dalrymple.  Approved. The school, housed in four main buildings, is associated with the National Ballet of Canada  Approved. In 2009, NBS celebrated its 50th anniversary with two large-scale initiatives: - Assemblée Internationale: a cross-cultural ballet festival that focuses on collaboration, partnership, and creative innovation in the ballet community. NBS hosted students, artistic directors, and artistic faculty members from 14 of the world’s top dance schools for a week of classes, rehearsals, conversations and performances. The festival was established as a quadrennial event. NBS Artistic Staff members organized a large, celebratory flash-mob at Toronto’s Eaton Centre. Online teaching videos were created to help participants learn the dance.  Declined. NBS has formally established a series of community-outreach initiatives, including in-person classes for children and youth in locations across Canada, classes for seniors and people living with Parkinson’s disease and dementia, and online teaching resources. In 2017, the School received a major grant from the Public Health Agency of Canada to support the expansion of these initiatives. The School also organizes the annual NBS Sharing Dance event in locations across Canada, which was selected as part of the Canada150 official celebrations. Clarification needed. The School celebrated its 60th anniversary in the 2019/2020 school year.  Declined. ___________

Reply 29-JAN-2020

Thank you for your attention to my proposed edits. Here I'm offering a corrected version of the edit that required clarification (sources were bundled at end of text):

Proposed addition under the "Expansion" section: "NBS has established a series of community-outreach initiatives, including in-person and video-streamed classes for children and youth, seniors and people living with Parkinson’s disease and dementia. In 2017, the School received a major grant from the Public Health Agency of Canada to support the expansion of these initiatives. The School also organizes the annual NBS Sharing Dance event in locations across Canada. The event was selected as part of the official celebrations of the 150th anniversary of Canada."

Thanks again. Wigmachine77 (talk) 17:38, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

References

@Wigmachine77: Thank you for your reply. With regards to the first claim, the reference which was provided was a Canadian Government press release. As the Canadian Government is a partner in this particular venture, it would be preferred to have this information coming from a reliable, independent, WP:SECONDARY source. With regards to the second item, the proposed source discusses a specific event: "which will prepare choreography that is expected to be performed by one million Canadians on June 2. The proposed sentence mentions an event called the "NBS Sharing Dance event." It's not clear from either the source or the proposed sentence whether these two events are one in the same. The sentence should be revised to reflect a proper paraphrasing of what the source actually states. If another independent, reliable, secondary source exists which links the two events as one, it should be provided. Regards,  Spintendo  02:54, 4 February 2020 (UTC)