Talk:Bunche

Requested move 20 April 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus to move (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 17:12, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

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Bunche → Bunche (surname) – since there are only three entries under Bunche, one of which is world-renowned, the surname "Bunche" should redirect to the Nobel Peace Prize recipient Ralph Bunche. — Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 15:08, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose - This is just playing favorites. It is certainly not the case that Ralph Bunche is popularly known by the singular name "Bunche". Who is this meant to help? -- Netoholic @ 18:37, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
• Comment. Since there may be doubt whether WP:OTHER STUFF EXISTS that would confirm the commonality of surname redirects on English Wikipedia — Category:Redirects from surnames lists 21,624 such redirects. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 19:25, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

  Terrible logic - First of all, not all of those redirects point to a single biographical article (many are variant spellings that point to disambiguation pages or surname articles, and many others point to the unambiguous articles where we have no other biographies using that surname). Second, because of this, you've got WP:OTHER STUFF EXISTS backwards - you need to make the case for this redirect on its own standing... not point to "other stuff" as sole justification. Where is the proof that Ralph Bunche is ever known by the singular name "Bunche"? -- Netoholic @ 20:06, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

No terrible premises in this logic — it may be noted that the entry for the Nobel Peace Prize recipient was created in September 2003 as one of "the unambiguous articles where we have no other biographies using that surname". Thus, in the same manner as all those other redirects, "Bunche" would have redirected to Ralph Bunche whether he was "ever known by the singular name Bunche" or not.

The entry for the football player was not created until July 2015, followed by the Bunche surname page in February 2017 and the entry for the Nobel recipient's grandson in April 2020. Without the pages for the other two men, the Nobel recipient's surname would have been a redirect to him from 2003 until today and now, even accounting for those two other men surnamed "Bunche", it should still redirect to him. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 23:27, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Using the dates of article creation is a red herring. At any time, an article can be created which supersedes a past primaryredirect - or which makes a primaryredirect ambiguous. If your argument is that Ralph is clearly primary for "Bunche" solely based on his article's creation date, you are just grasping at straws. I again directly ask you for evidence that Ralph Bunche is ever known by the singular name "Bunche". I also still want you to tell me who this primaryredirect is meant to help. -- Netoholic @ 23:55, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Neither grasping at straws nor at red herrings, but merely providing helpful details for editors who may wish to participate in this discussion. As has been already established, there are thousands of unique surnames that redirect to low-notability uniquely-named individuals that have not faced questioning as to the helpfulness of such redirects which would otherwise remain as redlinks.

As an example, let us take the first five names at the previously-mentioned Category:Redirects from surnames — Aaberge, Aaboe, Aâboubou, Aabrek and Aabrekk. None has come close to achieving the world-wide renown of Bunche and if any other notability becomes attached to one of those five appellations, they should become surname pages or dab pages.

Thus, it is certainly relevant that an equally rare surname — Bunche — stood alone for over a decade — from 2003 to 2015 — when a football player with that surname achieved a modicum of notability and, five years after that, the Nobel recipient's grandson also gained a modicum of notability. Does that mean that after 12 years of being English Wikipedia's sole Bunche, the Peace Prize recipient should lose his position as the primary Bunche? The decision belongs to consensus. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 03:33, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

At a simplistic level, you're suggesting that the handling of a page by Wikipedia editors is evidence of how Wikipedia editors should handle a page. Circular reasoning. -- Netoholic @ 07:12, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

The reasoning is circular and simplistic only if one contends or accepts that Wikipedia's consensus-based model is simplistic and circular. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 12:01, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose this primarytopic grab, per Netoholic. Dicklyon (talk) 05:03, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose no primary topic. 36.77.95.2 (talk) 11:50, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.