Talk:Better Off Alone

Questions

Why was the "Philosophical Implications" portion of this entry removed? I think this edit is appropriate on many entries - I wouldn't deprive a good Bob Dylan song entry that privelege....

• haha wtf? A pop song with only 2 lines & we're doing philosophy now? -Thric3 (talk) 06:30, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• alright, I've decided maybe it's a bit much. I still like, but if someone wants to remove it I wouldn't object. It's not that it is a bad section, but after re-reading it, the 'philosophical considerations' feels rather out of place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by James.barkley (talk • contribs) 16:59, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 19:50, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

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• Better Off Alone (Alice DeeJay song) → Better Off Alone
• Better Off Alone → Better Off Alone (disambiguation)

– WP:PTOPIC. DeeJay's is a much more known song than the other two topics. © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 01:28, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose - Billboard (and en.wp album articles) features 9 songs by this title, there are probably more. Does the 1999 Dutch dance track really need to have the name of artist removed? In ictu oculi (talk) 15:05, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose - This is a popular song, but with 9 other song's matching and this article's kind of lack of content, I don't think we need to move it. Andrzejbanas (talk) 15:43, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. WP:NCM quite deliberately and specifically eschews primarytopic for very good reasons. As Better Off Alone (Grinspoon song) exists there is no need for anybody to go bean-counting to determine some mythical lesser or more importance between two songs. --Richhoncho (talk) 18:46, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Everytime or The Jazz Singer are good examples that demostrate the WP:NCX are not policies. © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 21:59, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

• It hardly seems worth commenting at this stage, but I note another recent nomination which is arguing the exact opposite here. That nomination appears to be fully supported while this one is, at the moment, completely opposed. Go figure. --Richhoncho (talk) 22:43, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

• That's a different situation, I'm not requesting it to be moved to "Forgive Me". In fact, you are evading my argument trying to say the community support disambiguators, when it is not always the case. © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 15:04, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

No. The situation is exactly the same. As Better Off Alone (Grinspoon song) exists (as I have already noted) then WP:SONGDAB (which is supported by the policy WP:AT) says all the songs should be disambiguated. Why don't you withdraw your nomination (WP:SNOW), instead of getting into another pointless debate about what you *think* the policies and guidelines at WP are? Cheers. In answer to your point about avoiding answers, just because the community decides to ignore rules and policies in one instance, doesn't mean that decision applies every time. --Richhoncho (talk) 15:32, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose. This title works quite well. I see no compelling reason to reshuffle the articles. Binksternet (talk) 18:58, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Genre

Please don't add genre without a source. I don't necessarily agree that it isn't trance, but we still need a source per WP:RS, and WP:OR and WP:SUBJECTIVE. Andrzejbanas (talk) 04:06, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

per other genre notes, "Per WP:SCHOLARSHIP, "Wikipedians should never interpret the content of primary sources for themselves. See Wikipedia:No original research.". So we can't interpret something someone says specificly and say it means something. In this case a "trance-fueled" song, doesn't mean specifically that the artist was calling it trance music. Andrzejbanas (talk) 19:13, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Actually you are the using it to interpret it as just eurohouse. Also wikipedia also recommeneds to WP:STICKTOSOURCE and to not take sources Out_of_context. Also removing sourced info based on personal whim is considered disruptive.--76.107.252.227 (talk) 23:23, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough. Perhaps we shouldn't use it as a genre in the infobox then? Andrzejbanas (talk) 18:10, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

As there have been no further comments, I went ahead with the edits. Andrzejbanas (talk) 22:13, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

May 2014

Please do not change, add, or remove genres without reading the article or adding sources. Thank you. Andrzejbanas (talk) 05:23, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Techno-pop

I don't understand why you guys keep readding "techno-pop" - it's a meaningless throwaway genre name. The actual genre is trance. I was around back in the 90s when trance music at its peak when they used to play this song. The term is a marketing tool just as much as EDM or electronica. Does it mean anything? No. Wikipedia is supposed to be about the value and spread of accurate information. What are we doing if we put down a meaningless genre? Should we add every genre that every "reliable source" mentions? No we should choose the one that is the most accurate to what it actually is. Thoughts anyone? QubixQdotta (talk)

Genre is subjective, we don't get to decide what is or isn't a song, we are only open to sourced content. Personal experiences and thoughts don't really matter. I suggest reading Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth for a view on this. Personally, I don't disagree with you on your choice in genres, but it's incorrect to ignore a source because one of us doesn't like it. Andrzejbanas (talk) 04:04, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

So based on your argument, does that mean we should include every single genre that describes every single song from every reliable source? I understand where you're going but what are the guidelines without correct information? The genre was obviously added by someone ill-informed on the history of rave music. It's also a big part of the history of trance music and its emergence into the mainstream. QubixQdotta (talk) 04:17, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Again I don't disagree with you, but so far it's just one source fighting against another. So far this article is relatively weak and yes, that genre argument has been made before. If you find some wacky source that calls this death metal, then sure, it will be contested, but as I stated before genre is subjective. Although there are no real hard cut rules about it, I'd suggest trying to expand the section on the music and genre of this song in the article with good sources, and then we can probably drop the other genres that aren't as heavily discussed. Currently, it's one versus one, so your argument of "it's obvious this person doesn't know what they are talking about" doesn't hold much ground. I even agree with you, but its just not how things are done here. Andrzejbanas (talk) 04:28, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Agreed. This article shall include techno pop until the genres become fully fleshed. I found a source from Dash Berlin which was a good find. QubixQdotta (talk) 09:36, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Techno-pop pt. 2

What is everyone's opinion on "techno-pop" now that vocal trance is a confirmed genre and eurodance is a confirmed music format? QubixQdotta (talk) 07:14, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

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Requested move 3 April 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved as clear consensus has been established. (non-admin closure) — Music1201 ^talk 23:13, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

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• Better Off Alone (Alice Deejay song) → Better Off Alone
• Better Off Alone → Better Off Alone (disambiguation)

– No chart tables for either of the other topics and even the dab page has more views.[1] Unreal7 (talk) 20:48, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

• Support. Clear WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.--Cúchullain ^t/c 21:15, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified

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Another Cover

Also covered by "witch house" act Salem in 2011. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vpfritz (talk • contribs) 11:42, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

Covered by Grant in June of 2020 as well.