Talk:Bertha (tunnel boring machine)

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Not having luck getting photos of breakthrough. Need drone or Gates Foundation contact

The Seattle Times said yesterday that the machine would break through today, so I went down there and looked around the perimeter. There's no view of the exit hole or the wall Bertha will break through; they have it blocked from all angles. I spoke to the security guard and he said it wouldn't break through today, but will some time tomorrow (April 4) if all goes as planned. It's maybe possible to see some of the exit from the Space Needle gallery, but I think the view might be blocked, and you won't see the exit wall from that angle. Probably the best view is from an office on the top floor of the Gates Foundation -- or whatever the V shaped building behind the Gates foundation parking garage is. Does anyone have a contact there?

The guard said even credentialed media wouldn't be able to see anything from the ground. The only views of the boring machine break through will be from helicopters, or drones. Does anyone have a drone they could fly there? Even then, there's no telling what time of day it will happen. They work 24-7, so it could even happen in the middle of the night, though the guard thought it would be daytime. Or they could be delayed another day. Other than that I don't think there will be any freely-licensed photos of this event. Perhaps the back window of one of the apartment buildings between Dexter and Aurora cold get a good view, if we know anyone who lives in that area... --Dennis Bratland (talk) 00:12, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

An alternative might be to press WSDOT to put their photos in the public domain. I've never found out the reason why they place restrictions on their public photos. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 01:10, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

There is no authority to say Big Bertha is not the correct name? WTF?

Short version: read the WP:OTHERNAMES policy. Big Bertha does not redirect to Bertha (tunnel boring machine) and is not a 'significant alternative name' as defined by policy. It's a misnomer.

Long version:

The name of the tunnel boring machine is Bertha. It was named after Bertha Knight Landes. It's official name is Bertha; it says so. That is the authority which says that other names which are not Bertha are incorrect. So what is up with this edit summary? "There is no authority to say a nickname is incorrect here, and whoever named it certainly knew it would be called that by some." That's like saying we need an official authority to tell us its name is not Kevin. And if we want to start calling it Tunnelly McTunnelface we need an official who to explictly state, "No, it's name is not Tunnelly McTunnelface".

We have exactly two sources [1][2] who called it by the wrong name. Big Bertha is a different name, and it refers to several different things which are not Bertha (tunnel boring machine). The most recognizable of which is the World War I gun.

The fact that some media somewhere called something by the wrong name doesn't mean that is now a "nickname". Jon Stewart called Donald Trump Fuckface Von Clownstick, and we can cite several articles about this. But you'll note that the name Fuckface Von Clownstick appears nowhere in Wikipedia because that's not Trump's name and the fact that this one time this one guy called him that is not what "nickname" means. When this source incorrectly says Bertha is called "Big" Bertha because it's big, they' re just wrong. It's called Bertha because there was a naming contest and school kids named it after Washington Governor Bertha Knight Landes who has never in any context been called "Big Bertha". Taking factual errors and treating them as alternative facts is how wikihoaxes start.

In short, words mean things. Facts are things that exist. Reality is not something that comes into being just because some guy somewhere wrote a thing that said it. I don't think we sholud even mention these two sources that got the name wrong, but I'll tolerate it. But it does not go in the lead.

Again, check the policy WP:OTHERNAMES and the guidelines at WP:LEADSENTENCE. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 16:44, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Some proposed changes

Current: On December 6, 2013, work was halted approximately 1,083 feet (330 m) into the planned 9,270-foot-long (2,830 m) route because of an unexpected impediment.

proposed: On December 6, 2013, work was halted approximately 1,083 feet (330 m) into the planned 9,270-foot-long (2,830 m) route because the machine overheated and stalled.

Current: The machine's progress was halted on that day by an unexpected impediment.[28] After a month's investigation, WSDOT announced that the machine's cutting blades had encountered an 8-inch-diameter (20 cm), 119-foot-long (36 m) steel pipe, one of several well casings left over from a previous 2002 drilling project that had assessed groundwater conditions and soil stability in the area in case of another earthquake, such as the 2001 Nisqually earthquake, which led to a need for the replacing of the Alaskan Way Viaduct in the first place. The pipes' locations were known to WSDOT and the agency thought they had been removed. It is unclear whether the state agency or one of its contractors is responsible for the left-behind pipes, as well as who is responsible for allowing the tunneling to proceed without their removal.[29][30][31]

Proposed: Commentary: This is incorrect on many points, including the fact that machine DID cut through the well-casing, part of which came off the machine’s conveyer belt. Please delete this sentence. The dispute is reference in the last sentence correction.

Current: In December 2014, workers began digging a 120-foot-deep (37 m) pit in order to lift Bertha's front end up to street level for repairs,[33] but were delayed when groundwater pumping caused visible damage to nearby South King Street and some of its neighboring buildings.

Proposed: There was no project delay due to groundwater pumping. There was media speculation there could be, but that didn’t happen. Note the term "probably" used by Mike Lindblom in this article. This statement is inaccurate. Please delete Source: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/new-delay-in-bertha-rescue-as-engineers-study-sinking-soil/ www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/soil-heaves-while-bertha-sits-experts-check-building-foundations/

Current: The front end of the machine, including the damaged cutter head, was successfully lifted onto the surface on the morning of March 31, 2015.

Proposed: The front end of the machine was successfully lifted onto the surface on the morning of March 31, 2015. Commentary: The cutterhead was not damaged, there was wear on some of the removable teeth which is normal for that machine. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/bertha-repair-will-take-longer-theres-more-damage/

Bertraj (talk) 21:06, 25 June 2018 (UTC)bertraj

References

Reply 25-JUN-2018

 Declined

Your proposed text must be worded in a neutral tone. One of the proposals: "There was no project delay due to groundwater pumping. There was media speculation there could be, but that didn’t happen. Note the term "probably" used by Mike Lindblom in this article. This statement is inaccurate." Text worded in this manner is not neutral in tone, and as such, is unencyclopedic. Since these claims are being made by certain individuals or organizations, the repeating of their claims needs to be clearly stated as such, and placed using a neutral tone of voice, per WP:NPOV. This can be accomplished by ensuring that all statements be clearly attributed in the text, as the following example demonstrates:

Certain issues arose during the investigation. According to Susan Way of the Seattle Times, the rigging "showed definite problems in several key areas".

Please redraft your proposal, making sure that all statements are properly attributed to their sources in the text, using a neutral tone of voice. Regards,  spintendo  21:52, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Mistake

The Big Becky wasn't the previous world's largest TBM. Look at the list.Neytiri M.D. (talk) 14:08, 13 October 2018 (UTC)