Talk:Battle of Moulouya

misinformations

all this topic is just misinformations by the algerians, the whole story is fake and created by some sick people, plus algeria did not existed back then and even the map have been modified because Sijilmassa was part of Empire Cherifien, also another important point is the casualties, just by looking at the differences you will understand that something is wrong — Preceding unsigned comment added by Montananana (talk • contribs) 02:35, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

So you are claiming that this very well sourced event is completely false? Whatever748 (talk) 08:56, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Algerians are falsifying history on Wikipedia by altering several articles about Moroccan Kings and Sultans, making up imaginary battles they supposedly won against The Kingdom, and so on. This farce needs to stop. hahah this battle never took place i searched in internet i didn't found a source exept this and then i found a video in youtube that is completly unlogical pretending that algerian colonised morocco and made up moulay ismail one of the most famous alaouite dynasty sultans the same who defeated the frensh and the spanish at alraech and the same that took over the songhai empire was made a slave !!! this is propanganda don't belive this the only battle that took place betwen algeria and morocco wasn't really betwen algeria and morocco cause algeria never existed but between morocco and the turkish in battle of wad-lben wich morocco wonded against the holly ottoman army and janisser's i found that in wikepedia Stabilisation of the empire Between 1678 and 1679, Moulay Ismail attempted an expedition over the Amour mountain range into the region of Cherg, accompanied by a large contingent of Arab tribes, including the Beni Amer. The Turkish artillery put all the Arab tribes in the expedition to flight and the Sultan was forced to set the border between the Ottoman empire and Morocco at Tafna.[10][11] Moulay Ismail restored and reorganised Oujda on his return.[alN 12] He reorganised the south of the empire following an expedition in 1678, from Souss and the oasis of Touat to the provinces of Chenguit on the border of the Sudan region in modern Mauritania.[Arc 3] During his journey, Ismail appointed caids and pashas and ordered the construction of forts and ribats to demonstrate his control to the makhzen in these regions.[12] During this expedition, the Sultan received embassies from all the Maqil tribes in the Saharan provinces of the country, which stretched all the way to the Senegal river.[alN 13] Moroccan control over the Pashalik of Timbuktu was established in 1670 and continued throughout Moulay Ismail's reign — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8108:2C40:12E4:CB:2339:A1D9:8D60 (talk) 20:11, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Map

Hello, Askelaadden Are you certain that the map which you have created [1] is correct? According to many sources, Morocco had controlled territory as far as Tuat. Thanks. Fleettask (talk) 18:17, 12 May 2021 (UTC) Blocked sock. M.Bitton (talk) 13:29, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Hello Fleettask,

Thanks for your feedback, my map is based on this map : [[2]]

Otherwise, this battle took place in 1692 and the maps you shared above represent the barbarian states in 1877 and 1850. They are not relevant here.

barbarian states in 19 century ???? euhh algeria fell up to the frensh in 1830 and only morocco remainded to see the 20 century ??

Regards, --Askelaadden (talk) 18:34, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

@Askelaadden: I have found a 1710 map [3] which isn't far off the date the battle took place. Regards, Fleettask (talk) 18:58, 12 May 2021 (UTC) Blocked sock. M.Bitton (talk) 13:29, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Your map is fake. Here's the original: https://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/67481/africae-accurata-tabula-ex-officina-nic-visscher-visscher-i

Truly shameless.

+ Funny how you only pick maps that don't show a divided Algeria. Here's the same map you used with its original border colors: https://sanderusmaps.com/our-catalogue/antique-maps/africa/antique-map-of-africa-by-h-moll-4219 This is what happens when you mix modern politics with history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8108:2C40:12E4:5094:5DFA:DC10:8A12 (talk) 10:07, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

References

Sources are concerning

The article source scarcity and weakness is concerning. If such a major event in the history of the region indeed happened as described, there must be Arabic sources belonging to the same era. Citing one very little known French author is certainly not enough.

Map sources are equally concerning: they seem weak, fake and completely unreliable while better quality maps from the era do exist.

The article is very well sourced with quality sources focused on the subject. Moreover, the sources are all readable.

Concerning the map, you can find the two sources concerning it in the description of the image.

--Askelaadden (talk) 19:43, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

"Quality sources". I believe this is the object of our disagreement. Your sources are by no means quality sources, therefore the article is highly suspicious.

Hadj Chabane

This character is being depicted as largely more significant that he actually was. Did in good faith some research and found nothing of relevance about his time in charge of Ottoman Algeria. To portray him as a rival or equal of Ismail Ibn Sharif is dubious, to say the least. Even the Wikipedia entry in French language has a couple of lines about him, nothing more. There's a short Ukrainian version too, but no other Wikipedia has an article about him, not even English Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TunaLover3 (talk • contribs) 14:06, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

We rely mainly on the sources and not on other wikipedia projects. Furthermore, the article summarises and presents Hadj Chabaane as described in the sources. Nothing more. --Askelaadden (talk) 19:45, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Again: please cite a few contemporary and reliable MAGHREBI sources such as renown historians from that era, preferably from both sides of the conflict for more neutrality. Only then you can claim the article is well sourced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TunaLover3 (talk • contribs) 22:55, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Again : You can already find all the sources in the reference section of the article. Most of them are freely available. This trial you are making of the sources is delusional. --Askelaadden (talk) 09:05, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Gvtbh jmkmk

Vufvgbyhu 62.30.150.110 (talk) 19:12, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Fake information

The territory until the right bank of the Moulouya River experiences more than 100 years of Algerian rule?? What if I brought sources from the 19th century saying otherwise!! The boarders between ottoman empire and Morocco were ouad tafna,stop misleading and misusing historical informations 102.38.8.5 (talk) 19:04, 26 September 2023 (UTC)