Talk:Basques

Indigenous status?

Are there any sources for Basques being indigenous to Basque Country in the sense that Native Americans in the United States, Maya peoples, First Nations peoples, Irish Travellers, Morioris, and Crimean Tatars are considered indigenous? ~Cherri of Arctic Circle System (talk) 06:06, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

We don't say that Basques are indigenous in the sense you mention. In its most basic sense, 'indigenous' is largely synonymous with 'autochthonous', and this obviously applies to the Basques when you look at the "Origin" and "History" sections. So it's fine to say: Basques are indigenous to and primarily inhabit an area traditionally known as the Basque Country.

However, when it comes to the narrower sense that is commonly implied when talking about "Indigenous peoples" (with the package of massive territorial, economic, social and cultural marginalization), Basques fall outside of that category. –Austronesier (talk) 21:21, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

I agree with the first meaning for autochthonous, but I take the second view to be pretty arbitrary. The fact is that the stateless native peoples of Europe were wiped out from Wikimedia Commons as a category when they were not considered indigenous. Now we find misleading categories such as People from the Basque Country, which historically is obviously not the same thing as the Basques as an ethnic group defined by their language. The Basques are still an indigenous people, and discriminated as an ethnic/national group with only partial recognition. Iñaki LL (talk) 22:20, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

@Iñaki LL: Do you mind elaborating a bit on the last part? ~Chara of Arctic Circle System (talk) 22:06, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Well, it is a stateless people, Basque-language education was outlawed by the constitutional court in France last autumn, eventually leaving the ruling on hold following protests and demonstrations. Basques have been subjected to intense Frenchification historically, punishing children speaking Basque and alienating the Basques in all public spheres. Nowadays, Basque is banned in the railway network SNCF, its signposting and service to customers and as a requirements for certain job positions. The same goes for most of Navarre, where Basque linguistic profiles needed for services in administration for Basques have been discarded by the two main parties (only 1% of the administration labour holds a Basque language profile, as compared to the 12% of its population that can speak Basque).

Unlike other Spanish autonomous communities with their own language (Galicia, Catalonia, even Asturias), Basque, the historic language of the Navarrese, is not considered a cultural heritage of Navarre. The administration of the Basque Autonomous Community does not guarantee public services after 40 years of autonomic statute, with continuous intervention of Spanish tribunals in matters of language requirement and use, to the point of even accepting reports to farmer market sellers for having signs only in Basque. By contrast, breach of law is commonplace in the areas of highest Basque-language density, for example by having Spanish-only doctors and civil servants, despite legally Basque being co-official in these areas. To different degrees depending on the area, alienation of the Basques, understood as Basque-language speakers, is an everyday reality. Regards Iñaki LL (talk) 22:21, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

@Iñaki LL: I apologize for the late response, but while the suppression of the Basque language is awful, I'm not so sure they'd be considered indigenous people. This document from the UN explains the current conditions generally used for coverage of groups as indigenous people. https://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unpfii/documents/workshop_data_background.doc Also are there any sources that say that Basques consider themselves indigenous to the region in any way other than as the original inhabitants of the region? English people are the original inhabitants of England but they're not indigenous (just to clarify what I mean). ~Ceres of Arctic Circle System (talk) 22:12, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

I added a map image of the Basque diaspora.

File:Map of the Basque Diaspora in the World.svg 201.71.0.220 (talk) 20:14, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes, and very obstinately so. But Basque ancestry or having a Basque surname is not the same as Basque ethnicity. Also, estimates for Basque ancestry are more then vague and need solid sources. –Austronesier (talk) 21:24, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

The Catalans article uses the map. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.71.0.220 (talk) 21:27, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

The image is good. It shows what regions Basque people are concentrated in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.71.0.220 (talk) 21:30, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 April 2023

Add the Basque diaspora map image to the infobox.

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_the_Basque_Diaspora_in_the_World.svg 201.71.0.220 (talk) 22:23, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Anyone know if there is there a mechanism for having maps such as this one removed from Commons for being based on poor data? Akerbeltz (talk) 11:35, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Unfortunately not. OR is not sufficient reason to have a file deleted. Commons works more like a file repository for use in other Wikimedia Projects, each of which might have different policies about things like verifiabily. Only copyvios are systematically deleted. –Austronesier (talk) 12:20, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Urgh ok, that explains a lot. Thanks for explaining. Akerbeltz (talk) 21:37, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

I don't believe the map is based on poor data; the article it's based off of cites several reliable sources. EpicPupper (talk) 23:03, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

 Done EpicPupper (talk) 23:04, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

It isn't. Apart from the data we have in the infoboxes which is census data basically all the other 'sources' rely on variants of 'let's count Basque sounding surnames in the phone book of x and extrapolate that to the country y', which is just not reliable and we have discussed ad nauseum why that is not reliable. Akerbeltz (talk) 09:41, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

The uploader Allice Hunter stated “Information available on page Basques and Basque diaspora on the English Wikipedia with UploadWizard”. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.171.44.94 (talk) 09:14, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Yes, it's poorly source information that some people insist on adding to the page every now and then, that doesn't make it reliable. Akerbeltz (talk) 22:07, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 September 2023

Previews for this page display an Israeli flag as the article image, change this to the Basque flag Stripedorchid (talk) 17:39, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Don't see an Israeli flag anywhere in this article Cannolis (talk) 18:13, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

It is a result of vandalism. It will be fixed when the cache expires. Nardog (talk) 18:49, 15 September 2023 (UTC)