Talk:Alex Neil (footballer)

Requested move 21 September 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved to Alex Neil (football). DrKiernan (talk) 12:42, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

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Alex Neil (footballer) → Alex Neil (football manager) – There's a strong argument to say that Neil has already become far more notable for his management than his playing career. The article needs a rename. We could go with a bland compromise (Alex Neil (football)) but much better in my opinion would be to grasp the nettle and go for Alex Neil (football manager). Dweller (talk) 15:52, 21 September 2015 (UTC) Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 15:56, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

@Dweller: Alex Neil (football manager) seems fine to me... JMHamo (talk) 16:10, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Agree with above move to "football manager".--Egghead06 (talk) 04:32, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose - recentism/NPOV (16 years as player, 2 as manager), also prefer consistency to subjectivity. A similar situation was discussed in 2008: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Archive 18#Jim Smith (Manager). There it looks like a move would be opposed, have there been any other similar discussions? Peter James (talk) 20:28, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

  What consistency? Besides, he's already far more notable for managing top-flight clubs in two divisions than he was as a player. --Dweller (talk) 21:56, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

  A notable player who becomes a manager is usually disambiguated as "player". Neil has played in the Scottish Premiership, although much of his career was in lower divisions, and has managed top-flight clubs for approximately one year. Smith's playing career was in the Fourth Division and Non-League, he managed a top-flight club for five years, and there wasn't much support for changing the disambiguation. Peter James (talk) 22:35, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

• Comment Perhaps Alex Neil (football) would be better, as it covers all bases? Number 57 09:28, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

I'd be happy with that, or the proposal. The current name is misleading, anachronistic and daft. --Dweller (talk) 11:19, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

• Comment I think the compromise choice of Alex Neil (football) because naming him as a manager makes it sound like he never was a player.Red Fiona (talk) 21:55, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 27 December 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. There is a clear consensus to follow our usual naming practices. I would suggest that anyone who wants the convention altered should start a conversation about it at WT:FOOTY. Jenks24 (talk) 05:26, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

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Alex Neil (football) → Alex Neil (footballer) – Alex Neil is a footballer, not a football. Convention dictates that footballers more famous as managers remain named as (footballer), except in cases where they never played football professionally, in which case they are named (football manager). Of all the thousands of footballer articles I have seen, I cannot recall any being called (football). EchetusXe 00:27, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose - I don't believe this "convention" makes any sense. Neil is a manager and it is hardly recentism to describe him as such. Anyone looking for the article on Neil, I believe, would most likely do so due to his prominence as a manager - Move to Alex Neil (football manager).--Egghead06 (talk) 09:27, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

It is recentism to override a 16 year professional football career with less than one year solely as a football manager. That is besides the point however, surely it is common sense to have the short descriptive title of footballer than football manager? Are we going to start a side project to find footballers who went on to become managers and debate which ones were more famous as managers than as players? I cannot get my head around this at all. It had the correct title of (footballer), (football manager) would be bizarre but at least it would made more sense that (football).--EchetusXe 16:09, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

• Support - Putting WP:OSE aside, Luis Enrique is was famous as a footballer and is famous as a manager, and his pagename is still with the (footballer) convention. Makes little sense to use (football), and it is more common to use (football manager) (or football coach) when the subject did not appear as a player before (i.e. Ricardo Rodríguez). MYS77 ^✉ 18:28, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
• Support Alex Neil (football) seems like a nonsense name to me. He was a footballer as well as a manager, and is notable for both things. Also, the common disambiguation is (footballer). Joseph2302 (talk) 23:09, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 11:05, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose per the extremely recent move discussion above, which found consensus around a compromise. --Dweller (talk) 13:25, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
• Support per nom for consistency reasons. HandsomeFella (talk) 00:17, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
• Support. Usual disambiguator. Many footballers later went on to be managers. We call them footballers unless they are overwhelmingly known as a manager rather than a player. Neil isn't. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:23, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

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• ALEX NEIL SUNDERLAND WEMBLEY.jpg

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