Talk:Afar people/Archive 1

Archive 1

Photo of Afar girl

The photo with the title "Eritrean girl from Afar ethnic group" shows in reality a girl from Tajoura n Djibouti. The photo was published in the book "African Ark" from Carol Beckwith and Angela Fisher, 1990, at Harvill (ISBN 0-00-272780-3). The photo is on the back cover. In fact this is the kind of dressing unmarried girls wear on the occasion of a wedding. And, this is typical Tajoura culture, you won't find it in some other place. Therefor I propose to change the title. Driss 23:41, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

The photo is also a copyright violation because, as you've indicated, it is from a book. I've tagged the image at Commons. I'd forgotten the photo was taken in Djibouti, but I've seen it used on Ethiopian and Eritrean websites as though it were related to one of those countries. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 16:51, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

The kind of garment the girl is wearing is typical Tadjoura-culture. Originally it was restricted to Tadjoura, but ow the people from Obock copied it. I know this for sure, because some of in-law relatives live in Tadjoura and I also stayed some time there. You will also find this kind of photos on Djiboutian websites. I think Ethiopians an Eritreans, who use this photo, most probably don’t know very much about Afar culture, they just like the photo. In fact, there are at least two types of Afar culture: that of the inhabitants of the coast, which is a urban culture, and that of the pastoralists in the desert. Driss 17:54, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Driss, are you an Afar living in Germany? The division you're talking about is between Adohyammara (Qadohyammára) and Asahyammara (Qasahyammára), right? Don't Adohyammara live in the far south of Afar lands in the interior, as well as around the Dalol depression, in addition to living in Djibouti and S. Eritrea along the coast? — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:15, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Yom, no I am German, which you can also see from my personal page. But I travelled and stayed a lot in Eastern Wollo and Djibouti. Actually, I don't know very much in detail about the division you mentioned although I read about it. What I meant was the cultural difference between the Afar population of towns like Tadjoura and Obock (this may be extended to towns on the Eritrean coast) and the population of the inland, which lives predominantly a nomadic life in contrast to the urban life of the town population. As far as I know, there is no ethnic or clan division between the population of Tadjoura and the surrounding rural region. I thought the division you mentioned is mainly inside Ethiopia between the southern and the northern part (and as far as I know, the Dalol depression is part of the north since it Is very near to the Ethio-Eritrean border). Driss 10:52, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Height

I've heard that these guys are, on average, about 6 foot 6. Shouldn't this be mentioned? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.72.160.41 (talk) 17:30, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

1930s book

The book Desert and Forest by L M Nesbitt, published in 1934, says that it was obligatory for the Danakil men, as they were called in the book, to have killed other people before they were allowed to marry. The book says it describes the first expedition by europeans through the area to have survived. 78.146.27.49 (talk) 21:04, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Land of Punt

The references to the Land of Punt leave me confused. I thought nobody had been able to locate it for sure? It would be really interesting to see a citation for that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leirus (talk • contribs) 17:00, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Infobox Images for Ethnic Groups

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ethnic groups#Infobox Images for Ethnic Groups. Gyrofrog (talk) 18:52, 20 January 2011 (UTC) (Using {{Please see}}) -- Gyrofrog (talk) 18:52, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Plural

I see the article uses "Afar" as the plural. But Djibouti's previous name was the French Territory of the Afars and Issas. Is "Afars" not the correct plural? If so, the corollary will be that, per WP:ETHNICGROUP and per this recent discussion, the article should be moved Afars. —Largo Plazo (talk) 21:21, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Percentages

AFARS ARE 60%IN DJIBOUTI that mean first in ERITREA 3rd after TIGRENA% TIGRE aswell 5th in ETHIOPIA the total AFAR population actualy not known but apromxmat number is about more than 3million —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 196.202.59.14 (talk • contribs).

This is wrong figures. Although Afars were majority of Djibouti population 50 years ago, today the Demographics changed as political state of Djibouti changed due to Issa Somali domination. Afars are not more than 40% of Djibouti population. As for ERITREA, you could be right however I don't know much about Eritrean ethnic groups and their population figures. In Ethiopia, Afars have 3 million population and they may be 7th largest ethnic group but not fifth.

Maahis150 (talk) 08:22, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Afar people/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Article is missing several key sections suggested by Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic Groups/Template. -Fsotrain09 17:04, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 17:04, 3 May 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 06:48, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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Afar genes

is there any Recent DNA (chromosome) studies ?? Afar people

Haplogroup J1 is notable since this haplogroup shows highest frequencies in the Middle East North Africa and Ethiopia --Hisham 5ZX (talk) 15:21, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

- there's this: https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg201441 DNA studies of Y-chromosome E haplogroups:

The Yemeni, Saudi Arabia and Oman populations on the other hand form a Near Eastern group. The link between the Yemeni and Omani populations with Afar and Saho populations from Eritrea could be attributed to the geographical proximity and possibly past genetic history.

[…]

The Saho and Afar populations of Eritrea tend to cluster with the Near Eastern or Arabian populations (brown shaded). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.70.7 (talk) 08:05, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Afar are yemeni tribe

Afar are yemeni tribe

Afar(عفار) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.132.224.3 (talk) 00:17, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

No. They are a Cushitic speaking ethnic group living in three Northafrican countries. Driss 09:19, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

• I think the original language of Afar tribe is Mehri language but today they Speak Amharic which also are Semitic language

I find site about says that Afar tribe are from mahrah tribe and they came from egypt to Ethiopia with the muslims

http://www.almahrah.net/vb/

They are offshoots from an ancient Arab tribe in origin, proposed to be descending from al-Qahtani (original arabs) and DNA studies of Y-chromosome E haplogroups supports this: https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg201441 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.70.7 (talk) 08:03, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

what you say about that . .? what Afar people says. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.138.119.26 (talk) 01:32, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

No. Afar speak Afar which is a Lowland East Cushitic language. closley related to Somali and Oromo. They don't speak Amharic. There are some Afar in Ethiopia and Djibouti who speak Amharic as a second languae. There is no relation between the Afar and the Mehri language. And they also didn't come from Egypt. They became Muslims in the Middle Ages, like other people in the Horn of Africa. Driss 06:36, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

anyway there families who claim a descent to Afar tribe in Yemen and in Rub' al Khali and in Oman and Kuwait,and in Yemen they Speak Mehri language--~~

May be, but I can assure you that there are no speakers of Mehri nor in Djibouti, nor in Eritrea nor in Ethiopia, which are the countries where the Afar live. Driss 07:36, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Taken from the Arabic wikipedia: عفر هم المعافرة وهي بطن من مهرة بن حيدان قضاعة حمير من القحطانية من مهرة باليمن راجع (تاريخ بن خلدون، ونهاية الإرب للنووي) في معظم البلدان العربية وخاصة في اليمن وشرق السودان يسمونهم بالدناكل، ونسبةً إلى ملك كان يحكم المثلث العفري اسمه دنكلي بن ملكان، حتى أنه كان للعفر بئر خاص في اليمن يعفر ببئر الدناكل.[2][3][4] نزح العفر من اليمن إلى القرن الإفريقي منذ أكثر من 400 سنة

In most Arab countries, especially in Yemen and eastern Sudan, they are called Danakil, and in the case of a king who ruled the Afari triangle named Dankli bin Malakan, he was the ruler of the tribe of Al-Qahtani, and there is a special well in Yemen that was named as the well of dankali. [2] [3] [4] Al-Afar fled Yemen to the Horn of Africa more than 400 years ago — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.70.7 (talk) 08:09, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Yasin claims

Yasin is not a credible historian and his claims are not supported by contemporary sources. Please do not add weak theories to this article and fool the masses. Ayaltimo (talk)

Please reply @Magherbin: instead of engaging edit warring so I can explain why that source shouldn't be up there as it contracts with the contemporary sources which I can show once you respond.

If you are not going to respond then I suggest you don't add the source back as I will remove it. I'm going to quote from the Cambridge History of Africa more credible than an unknown historian who is not supported by experts.

Dir stretched from Cape Guardafui to Tadjoura and were the earliest clan in the region to embrace Islam. - The Cambridge History of Africa page 138

According to Huntingford, in the 16th century, the Awash river was called the great Dir river and lay in the country of the Muslims.

Another indication Dir territory stretched from the Awash valley during the medieval period disproving the expansion claims.

The Dankali however, always lived in the red sea before they expanded south. I'll quote from Africa shoestring page 194.

Number of independent trading kingdoms grew up along the Red Sea coast and gradually began to expand down the Awash Valley following the line of the present-day railway.

Please refrain from posting a weak source or create a neutral viewpoint where it doesn't create a dispute. Ayaltimo (talk) 01:24, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Also i would like to add the point about the part about Awash river being called Dir river is from Futah Al Habasha.[1] It's a first hand account written in the 16th century. Not a scholarly opinion.

Furthermore several Dir clans have been documented to be natives living across Harrarghe highlands but then assimilated by Oromos during their migrations while maintaing Somali lineage and partial Somali identity. Most of them were dir clans like Jarso, Akisho, Gurgura, Bursuk,Nole, Metta, Oborra etc and Afar later replaced the Adal with sultanate of their own and assimilated the Harla Darods and some Dir moving into Awash river replacing it with their own Sultunate Awsa [2]. Ragnimo (talk) 14:02, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

This page is about the Afar not about Dir history hence irrelavent you're free to include Dir history on their article provided the sources say what you claim. Yassin isnt the only author that claims Issa stole territory from the Afar, John Markakis claims the same, this time as recently as the 19th century [3] hence you should refrain from removing references you dont agree with. Magherbin (talk) 00:36, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

You're deliberately twisting the sources to fit into your false narrative. Markakis claims the Issa expansion was modern but what you wrote made it seem like after the fall of Adal Sultanate the Afars were crippled and thus Issa began expanding into Afar territory [4] and that is Original research which is not allowed. I presented you scholarly research sources proving Dir occupied more territory during the medieval period before the wave of Afar expansion. I have no problem with you adding Markakis claims on the Issa expansion but please mention the date which was in the 19th century and during the Italian occupation. Ayaltimo (talk) 02:37, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Read what original research actually means. Yassin said the Issa expansion was in the 16th cetnury, Magherbin (talk) 00:59, 8 December 2020 (UTC)