Talk:2023 Canadian Championship

Location info and league info

Is there a reason why location info for teams was removed from the list of teams, and the league info via the dot colours was removed from the map? -boldblazer 04:39, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

I thought it novel to place the map and list of teams with their associated leagues right next to each other so that the information can be inferred within eyeshot instead of duplicated in different sections. I added a locations column back to the table of teams; how does that look? — AFC Vixen 🦊 13:21, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, I think this works. I'm fine with this look. -boldblazer 02:37, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Just saw this after making some bold changes, but the compressed teams tables caused some WP:ACCESS issues, so I put it on top of each other as I don't think there is space for a side-by-side view anymore. CRwikiCA talk 21:25, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Tournament section

@RedBlueGreen93: Can you please explain this revert? — AFC Vixen 🦊 08:31, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

It was the easiest way to restore all the information you deleted previously. I copied it beforehand and pasted all those football boxes back in alongside the summary tables. RedBlueGreen93 (talk) 08:49, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

The only information I actually removed was dates for the announcements for the announcements of the draw, which I thought was textbook over-detailing. Besides that, I removed no other information whatsoever. Based on your actions, it seems you instead have a problem with the form in which both the information already present, and the information I added, was presented? — AFC Vixen 🦊 08:58, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

And all the summary tables. And since when were collapsible boxes used for Canadian Championship articles? Your information is still there, those edits simply replaced the tables that you deleted. RedBlueGreen93 (talk) 09:13, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

I do not understand why we need to write matches twice in two different styles in the same section right next to each other like this. — AFC Vixen 🦊 09:15, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Then ask about it on the talk page. Don't just randomly delete information. The summary tables provide more uniform information about the round results, while the boxes have inconsistent shapes, but can give detailed information about each tie. If you disagree, that's totally fine, but do so on the talk page. RedBlueGreen93 (talk) 09:23, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

​It is within my right per WP:BOLD and the WP:BRD cycle to make changes and then discuss them if they get reverted, and please stop claiming I deleted information about matches when I did not. Rearranging ≠ deleting. In its collapsed state, which is how it will be by default, {{Football box collapsible}} presents all the information {{OneLegResult}} can about matches in a very similar uniform, consistent way while staying simple. Readers also have the option of viewing more detailed information by simply uncollapsing the boxes. I have presented some examples below to illustrate this; if these really were your issues, surely {{Football box collapsible}} resolves them, no?

Team 1	Score	Team 2
Varsity FC	3–2	CS Saint-Laurent
Cavalry FC	1–2 (a.e.t.)	York United
CF Montréal	1–1 (a.e.t.) (4–2 p)	Vancouver Whitecaps

Varsity FC v CS Saint-Laurent

April 19 Match 1	Varsity FC	3–2	CS Saint-Laurent	UBC, British Columbia
19:00 PDT	Clarke 6' Kaiser 32' Gardner 90+3'	Report	Youta 14' (pen.), 65'	Stadium: Thunderbird Stadium Attendance: 2,216 Referee: Yusri Rudolf

Cavalry FC v York United

May 7 Match 2	Cavalry FC	1–2 (a.e.t.)	York United	Foothills County, Alberta
16:30 MDT	Mason 32',  65'	Report	Rosario 45+2', 76'	Stadium: ATCO Field Attendance: 4,845 Referee: Juan Márquez

CF Montréal v Vancouver Whitecaps

June 12 Match 3	CF Montréal	1–1 (a.e.t.) (4–2 p)	Vancouver Whitecaps	Montreal, Quebec
18:30 EDT	Brault-Guillard  56' Quioto 117'	Report	Raposo 97'	Stadium: Stade Saputo Attendance: 15,499 Referee: Alain Ruch
	Penalties
	Kwizera Kamara Toye Quioto		Caicedo Gutiérrez Dájome

— AFC Vixen 🦊 11:10, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

@RedBlueGreen93: Pinging you again, in case {{Hidden ping}} did not work. — AFC Vixen 🦊 10:21, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

I really cannot figure out what you are complaining about. You deleted the summary tables and added the football boxes. I simply brought back the summary tables to work alongside your additions. The reverting was just an easy way to recover lines that you had deleted, but nothing of yours was actually removed. RedBlueGreen93 (talk) 3:55, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

​I am not sure how I could make it more clear to you that my opinion is that the summary tables are not needed because {{Football box collapsible}} adequately resolves your complaints about "uniform information" and "inconsistent shapes" while still providing "detailed information about each tie". We do not need to write the matches twice. Once is enough. — AFC Vixen 🦊 10:19, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Evidently, we've both made up our minds, so this isn't really worth discussing anymore unless someone else wishes to share their thoughts. On a different note, do you have a source for the HFX–Ottawa match being played at a neutral venue? I think it might be helpful in this article. RedBlueGreen93 (talk) 3:31, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

​I intend to rewrite the whole section soon enough to detail the intricacies of the drawn, including the commitment of hosts, but for now I will slide in a sentence into the section with the appropriate quoted source to explain the neutral venue for HFX v ATO. As for this discussion, since we have agreed to disagree, I hope you don't mind that I have requested a third opinion on the matter, for who I will now summarise the discussion for below. — AFC Vixen 🦊 18:02, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

For a third opinion:

Option A

Team 1  Score  Team 2 Varsity FC 3–2 CS Saint-Laurent Cavalry FC 1–2 York United CF Montréal 1–1 (4–2 p) Vancouver Whitecaps April 19 19:00 PDT Match 1 Varsity FC 3–2 CS Saint-Laurent Clarke 6' Kaiser 32' Gardner 90+3' Report Youta 14' (pen.), 65' Thunderbird Stadium, UBC, British Columbia Attendance: 2,216 Referee: Yusri Rudolf May 7 16:30 MDT Match 2 Cavalry FC 1–2 York United Mason 32',  65' Report Rosario 45+2', 76' ATCO Field, Foothills County, Alberta Attendance: 4,845 Referee: Juan Márquez June 12 18:30 EDT Match 3 CF Montréal 1–1 Vancouver Whitecaps Brault-Guillard  56' Quioto 87' Report Raposo 90+5' Penalties Kwizera Kamara Toye Quioto 4–2 Caicedo Gutiérrez Dájome Stade Saputo, Montreal, Quebec Attendance: 15,499 Referee: Alain Ruch

Option B

Varsity FC v CS Saint-Laurent April 19 Match 1 Varsity FC 3–2 CS Saint-Laurent UBC, British Columbia 19:00 PDT Clarke 6' Kaiser 32' Gardner 90+3' Report Youta 14' (pen.), 65' Stadium: Thunderbird Stadium Attendance: 2,216 Referee: Yusri Rudolf Cavalry FC v York United May 7 Match 2 Cavalry FC 1–2 York United Foothills County, Alberta 16:30 MDT Mason 32',  65' Report Rosario 45+2', 76' Stadium: ATCO Field Attendance: 4,845 Referee: Juan Márquez CF Montréal v Vancouver Whitecaps June 12 Match 3 CF Montréal 1–1 (4–2 p) Vancouver Whitecaps Montreal, Quebec 18:30 EDT Brault-Guillard  56' Quioto 87' Report Raposo 90+5' Stadium: Stade Saputo Attendance: 15,499 Referee: Alain Ruch Penalties Kwizera Kamara Toye Quioto Caicedo Gutiérrez Dájome

I hope this is a fairly simple and straightforward premise for a third party to opine on; which of these styles should we present the list of matches in? Option A, where a {{OneLegResult}} "summary table" is placed directly above a {{Football box}} list with detailed results, or option B, where only a {{Football box collapsible}} list is used, presenting the matches in a "summary table" style in a collapsed state, while also providing the detailed results in a uncollapsed state? — AFC Vixen 🦊 18:02, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

3O Response: My first impression was that use of {{OneLegResult}} was redundant with {{Football box collapsible}}, the latter of which provided more useful information and links. Compare with the tables at 2023 World Junior Ice Hockey Championships#Group A where the summary tables provide a different set of information. However, this isn't as cut and dry as a redundancy issue. It appears to me that there's an accessibility issue. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility#Data tables and Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility/Data tables tutorial. The little soccer ball and other icons could also use some explanation per MOS:APPROPRIATEICONS, and be aware that in the case of a javascript failure all of the collapse boxes would be displayed expanded.

While FBC / Option B is more visually appealing, it seems to me that OLR / Option A is closer to meeting accessibility requirements. Having an accessible presentation of the data appear first, where screen readers will first encounter it, would be of benefit to visually-impaired users.

The only compromise third option I have would be to replace the small OLR summary table with a prose summary, then follow with the FBC table from Option B.

This has been a non-binding third opinion, but I hope it helps! – Reidgreg (talk) 00:58, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Since the tournament has not started, there is nothing much to write about for screen readers in prose yet, other than perhaps a simple description of the scheduled matches. Would that suffice as a replacement for the OLR boxes for now? — AFC Vixen 🦊 01:24, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

@AFC Vixen: Readership of these articles tends to be highest during the event, so it would be good to have something accessible there even if it will have to be updated/replaced. – Reidgreg (talk) 14:05, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Name of first round

The Canadian Soccer Association appears to call the first round of the tournament the "Preliminary Round." Should the article reflect this, or was "First Round" chosen for any other relevant reason? RedBlueGreen93 (talk) 20:51, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Looks like the CSA had used "First Round" in a few releases (Ex. 1, Ex. 2) but "Preliminary Round" seems to be more commonly used. BLAIXX 02:25, 11 May 2023 (UTC)