Talk:2023 AFL Grand Final

Quarter-by-quarter breakdowns

Okay, who wants to volunteer a basic outline of each quarter as it happens? I'm happy to edit each quarter, but I think having a couple of writers working on quarterly updates will be very useful for people who want to catch up on the game. This hasn't always happened in recent years, but I think it should happen. Electricmaster (talk) 07:59, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

I would just leave that to the newspaper live blogs. Our job is really more about writing a good, referenced encyclopedic look-back, not an up to the minute news source. Aspirex (talk) 08:56, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

I will refer you to this partial-game archived version from the 2023 Super Bowl: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Super_Bowl_LVII&oldid=1139047965

Note that the game summary is updated in real time, never mind at the breaks, so quarterly updates seem perfectly reasonable. Electricmaster (talk) 12:24, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

I will give brief outlines on the major events that happen during each quarter, and someone else can flesh them out during or after the game. Electricmaster (talk) 12:25, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

My point is that there is not one sentence in that real time Super Bowl text slab which still exists in the end stable version of the article. Do what makes you happy – that's why we all edit, after all – for me, that will mean watching the game without distraction. Aspirex (talk) 20:24, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

There are plenty of articles that have been rewritten over time. I get your point about wanting to focus on the game. Electricmaster (talk) 00:33, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

How can quarterly updates created by our editors be anything other than unsourced original research? HiLo48 (talk) 23:49, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

There are several reliable sources that give real-time updates. Electricmaster (talk) 05:48, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

TV and radio commentators listing is trivia

I regard the listing of all the TV and radio commentators to be non-encyclopaedic trivia. Convince me I'm wrong. HiLo48 (talk) 08:46, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

• We list a lot of people who were involved in the grand final: not just those involved in the match itself – players, coaches and umpires – but also people who shaped the grand final as an event – the pre-match and half-time entertainment, the national anthem singer, and so on. Commentators are just another such group of people.
• Many more people watch the grand final on TV or listen on the radio than attend the game live. Commentary is a significant part of this experience.
• Independent RS dedicated an article to the topic.
• An assertion something is "unencyclopedic" is vague and thus difficult to argue against. – Teratix ₵ 15:59, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Not convinced that I'm wrong. I "watched" the game by occasionally checking the score on the AFL website. How do we credit that? HiLo48 (talk) 23:24, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Can we semi-protect this article?

This article is on verge of multiple vandalism edits because of the ongoing controversies. It would be ideal to have this one semi-protected. FastCube (talk) 08:25, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Remove Coach’s medal category

The Jock McHale medal is the coaches medal for the AFL Grand Final. Removing the “coach’s medal” row of the table would also create consistency with the other AFL Grand Final articles. PurpleConjecture (talk) 10:47, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Done. – Teratix ₵ 15:49, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Ordering of teams and game summary

This article and 2022's have the teams listed below the match summary, but previous years put the teams first. In the most recent Super Bowl, for example, teams are listed first. While I don't think listing the teams after is inherently wrong, I think it's worth discussing the logical merits of putting it underneath. Personally, I'm considering putting it below and making that the template default, but I'd like to know the community's thoughts. If there are no objections or if the consensus is to move the section, I will do so within 48 hours. Electricmaster (talk) 05:56, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

I have a strong preference for match summary first, teams later. My view is that the match summary is the most important part of the article, so should be ahead of as many sections as possible; it can't be ahead of 'background' because that provides necessary context for the game; but the teams section doesn't provide any context necessary for interpreting the match summary (as I/we are quite deliberate about phrasing the match summary so that it doesn't pre-assume knowledge about which player plays for which team). You lose a little bit of chronology (i.e. the selection table ins and outs are described after the match summary), but I feel the article still flows perfectly well with that foible; but you also benefit greatly from the fact that the 'Teams' section has become a little bit of a trivia section for individual records, and that would feel very out of place if it starts talking about (using 2022's example) 'Tuohy and O'Connor are the second Irish players to win a premiership' before the match summary is complete.

I would also, by the way, be pretty keen to move 'Entertainment' somewhere below 'Match Summary', for most of the same reasons as above. It had never previously bothered me since, until relatively recently, the 'Entertainment' section was generally one paragraph; but now that it's typically a couple of detailed paragraphs and a moderately large supporting table, I feel it's started to turned into a pretty big diversion of attention away from what should be a natural flow between the 'Background' and 'Match Summary' sections. Aspirex (talk) 06:40, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

You make good points and clearly feel strongly about your opinions, so I'm happy to go with your plan. As for the entertainment stuff, I don't mind this so much, personally, since it helps build to the game choronologically, and it can easily be bypassed through the contents menu if a person is just wanting to quickly look for the game summary. Electricmaster (talk) 10:54, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:2023 AFL Grand Final/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Electricmaster (talk · contribs) 06:28, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

I did a full copyedit of this article a little while ago, hence my high number of edits. In my opinion, this is arguably the best-written summary of a VFL/AFL grand final I've seen yet; I've seen an AFLW grand final with less detail and polish be given GA status, so I think this deserve GA classification. Match details are appropriately detailed without being excessive, and the complemtary images are as good as they can be without violating copyright. There's nothing that's not here that should be, and for that reason I'm approving this article. Well done.