Talk:2021 Turkish Women's Cup

Status of tournament and players competing

Pinging @Kante4, Mentos863, 88.105.86.244, and Mcruic: as main contributors to the page.

So let's recap from edit summaries - there is a bit of a disagreement which teams and matches should be included on this page. Kante4 said "if those are not connected to the tournament they should not be in here, atleast for me. open for discussion" and I countered "as far as I understand they are connected - they were supposed to be part of the tournament, but were not registered properly or something. it's not extremely clear". IP 88.105.86.244 claims "citation not possible. Information came direct from communication with organisers and FIFA", which is not a valid point and not how we write articles on Wikipedia - the information needs to be cited in the most verifiable and reliable way we can.

So this tournament is problematic as there isn't much information about it. This Twitter thread can confirm that there is differences in knowledge about who and what is official or "just a friendly" (reminder that this whole tournament is just friendlies). In my opinion we should include any matches between senior women football teams which are happening at this period in that area of Turkey (with referencing of course) and perhaps leave out the standings table, unless we have reliable referencing for a standings table.

Regarding information we do have (apart from English sources, my information is based off use of Google Translate, so may be not fully accurate):

• 9/2 Originally Nigeria, Equatorial Guinea, Uzbekistan, and Zambia were scheduled for the cup, but Zambia pulled out
• 11/2 Nigeria announced a squad and said that the teams in the tournament are Ukraine, Serbia, India, Bulgaria, Uzbekistan, and Equatorial Guinea (after Zambia withdrew)
• 12/2 Uzbekistan named a squad for a seven team tournament (after Zambia's withdrawal), saying they are in group A with Nigeria and Equatorial Guinea
• 13/2 CSKA Moscow replaced Zambia
• 16/2 FEGUIFUT announced that the Equatorial Guinea team practiced in Turkey ahead of the games (but seems they weren't updated Zambia pulled out)
• 18/2 Nigeria beat CSKA Moscow 1-0
• 19/2 FEGUIFUT said that after the 5-0 loss to Uzbekistan, they are practicing for the match against the Russian team (though it says Russia, I suppose they mean CSKA Moscow which is a Russian team).
• 20/2 CSKA Moscow beat Equatorial Guinea 2-0

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• 9/2 Ukraine announced a squad for a camp in Turkey, including international matches
• 11/2 Ukraine announced they are competing in the 2021 Turkish Women's Cup with matches against India and Serbia
• 11/2 Russia announced a squad for a camp in Turkey, including a match against Serbia
• 12/2 It was announced that India would participate in a tournament in Turkey, together with Serbia, Russia, and Ukraine
• 14/2 Serbia announced a squad for matches against India, Russia, and Ukraine

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What I understand from these sources is that the 2021 Turkish Women's Cup was scheduled to be an eight team tournament. Group A: Equatorial Guinea, Nigeria, Uzbekistan, and CSKA Moscow (who replaced Zambia). Group B: India, Russia, Serbia, Ukraine.

The status of what is "officially" the tournament and what is "just" a friendly is unclear, but as I said above I don't think there's much of a difference so propose that if we are keeping the page, we should include it all.

Inviting more people to comment and discuss, --SuperJew (talk) 21:30, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

The Russian national team replaced the Bulgarian national team (group B). Ukraine refused to play with Russia. All information must be indicated. --Mentos863 8:58, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

@Mentos863: Could you please provide sources to back what you are saying? I tried searching for the information about Bulgaria and the only thing I found is the very general statement that they will participate in Premium Times' Nigeria's squad announcement. Couldn't find anything on their association website either. As you can see above, all the information I provided is with sources. --SuperJew (talk) 09:25, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

The source you indicated says this: «Ukraine, Serbia, India, Bulgaria, Uzbekistan and Equatorial Guinea are among teams confirmed so far for the 10-day tourney, though the Tokyo Olympics-bound Zambian team pulled out for undisclosed reasons». --Mentos863 9:45, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

@Mentos863: Yes, I see what it says there. That's the only mention of Bulgaria in relation to this tournament that I saw. Do you have a source confirming Russia replaced Bulgaria? Do you have a source saying Ukraine refused to play Russia? --SuperJew (talk) 10:39, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Just because teams play friendlies in Turkey does not mean those should be included. Yeah, it was planned to have more teams playing but now those are "just" friendlies. Kante4 (talk) 11:19, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

But they are not randomly playing friendlies. They are playing friendlies which were planned as part of this tournament of friendlies. And these specific matches may or may not (it is rather unclear) in the end be not officially part of the tournament. --SuperJew (talk) 12:23, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

I get that, but as it looks now they are not in the standings and so on, which means they are not part of it. Don't like those tournament which rarely have a good website. Kante4 (talk) 13:01, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Do you have a source for these standings? --SuperJew (talk) 14:04, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Touche. ;) But tbh, i never searched for the tournament so far. Kante4 (talk) 14:24, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

@Kante4: Interestingly enough, the source Mentos863 added recently mentions only Ukraine, Serbia, Russia, India as the teams competing. Though I wouldn't completely rely on Soccerway in this and they're probably as confused as us. --SuperJew (talk) 19:24, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

• 17.02.2021: Serbia—India (2:0), Russia—Ukraine
• 19.02.2021: Serbia—Ukraine (1:1), Russia—India (8:0)
• 23.02.2021: Serbia—Russia (2:0, Ukraine—India (3:2) --Mentos863 9:45, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

@Kante4 and Mentos863: I'm going to reinstate group B on the page, unless someone can bring reliable sourcing that all the matches in the group are not part of the tournament. --SuperJew (talk) 10:46, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank. Reasonable! Thank you!---Mentos863 10:56, 23 February 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mentos863 (talk • contribs)

Just a few things. I was the one who wrote earlier I had seen the official information from the organisers and FIFA. I work as a freelancer for FIFA, updating them with international fixtures and results for football, futsal and beach soccer. But as I can't put this "proof" in the public domain, it will always fall foul of Wikipedia rules. I had similar problems when I tried to prove that certain matches were actually completely fictional (Central African Republic women's national team was one example I can remember). As for the Soccerway links - I communicated with them also by email - that is why they changed their info. Unfortunately, they misunderstood my email and left the wrong group in the tournament. I tried writing to them again, but they didn't reply. The thing here that should be understood is that when information is released, it's not always public, and it's not released with Wikipedia in mind. Communication between FIFA and match agents is done via internal email, and this communication contains information about the tournament that may never be published on any website. I have the emails, but I'm not at liberty to share them, and so therefore cannot prove anything. All I can say is that the information I have at my disposal is that there was one group (Nigeria, Uzbekistan, CSKA Moscow and Equatorial Guinea), organised by 2 official FIFA match agents. The other "group" was just a series of friendly matches (Russia would not play Ukraine at the moment because of political reasons, in any case). In addition, some of these friendly matches were not authorised (improper documentation). The teams thought they were playing in the Turkish Women's Cup, but what transpired in reality was that for certain reasons, it was not possible to organise the tournament as originally planned. I appreciate this information is not verifiable, but it's certainly more reliable than any other information you'll find online, as it comes directly from FIFA, who was in charge of authorising the tournament in the first place. Mcruic (talk) 00:23, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

References