Talk:2011 UK Open

Use of the Ulster Banner

I have again removed the Ulster Banner to denote the nationality of players born in Northern Ireland from this article. The reasons for this are as follows.

1. It contravenes the Manual of Style (icons) in a couple of areas:

a. Do not use flags to indicate location of birth, residence, or death.

b. Overbroad use of flags with politicized connotations (which mentions the Ulster Banner specifically).

2. It contravenes the Manual of Style (Ireland-related articles) which states “if the organisation uses no particular flag or banner, do not use any flag.”

3. As the Good Friday Agreement states that all people born in Northern Ireland have the right to both British and Irish citizenship unless people can provide a reliable source to indicate which nationality a person has selected then the use of the UB goes against the Biographies of living persons standard which states “Editors must take particular care when adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page.” It also states “Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion.”

4. There is no evident of consensus or any discussion about using the Ulster Banner. As this is a new page and this is the first topic it can be assumed that NO discussion has taken place regarding using the UB on this article. In addition I have request at the WikiProject Darts talk page (since 3 April 2011) for someone to show where a general consensus was reached to use the flag without anyone doing so.

Before anyone considers reverting my edit I suggest that they address the issues which I have raised above. Bjmullan (talk) 17:47, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

You are right. No discussion has taken place, so why are you removing the Ulster Flag before discussin the matter? So I will revert your change, then we can discuss the matter. WizOfOz (talk) 18:02, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

In answer to the points raised above: 1) a - this applies to all 188 flags on the page, so why have you singled out just one? 1) b - No overbroad use, Banner used in the same fashion as all other flags in the text.

2) The flags are not being used in connection with an organisation, they are being used in connection with the individual. There are many precedents for such use. How about getting references for all the other nationalities of the mentioned people, why single out those from Northern Ireland?

3) A red herring and hardly relevent to the spirit of BLP.

4) As much as consensus to use the flag, you also need consensus to not use it. WizOfOz (talk) 18:16, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Correct WizOfOZ this applies to 188 flags on this page and to all the flags in all of the darts articles. More flags doesn't make it right.

No the Banner is not being used in the same fashion as the other flag. Northern Ireland doesn't have a flag.

If the flag is being used to represent an individual as you claim then then it violates WP:MOSFLAG.

The BLP doesn't deal in spirit ONLY in fact.

Can you point me to the Wikipedia policy the points to needing to show consensus for a flag that is currently in violates WP:BLP, WP:MOSFLAG and WP:IMOS? You have been reverted and will be report next time. Bjmullan (talk) 21:25, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

CFuller what do you want me to stop? Implementing Wikipedia policy on BLP? Implementing the manual of style? No one at this talk page or at the darts project page has shown ANY proof that a consensus to go against policy or the MOS has even been discussed never mind reached. Your change has been reverted. Bjmullan (talk) 09:16, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Bjmullan, if you continue to do what you have done to this article, and other darts articles, regarding the Northern Irish flag, you will be reported. CFuller (talk) 13:34, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

I have continued. Report me and see where it gets you. And what grounds will the report be? Implementation of policy and MOS, that will get my an indef. Bjmullan (talk) 16:30, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes you've continued to edit war, and work against consensus. Whatever the rights and wrongs of this, one thing is crystal - you don't have consensus for it. Please don't claim the MOS gives you that consensus because it doesn't. WizOfOz (talk) 16:41, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

I will repeat my question AGAIN. Can anyone should where consensus was reached to go against WP policy and the MOS? Bjmullan (talk) 16:42, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

It's not going against it specifically, especially if you read it word for word carefully, as I've just done again. Anyway, it's a guideline and if agreement is to go against it that's fine. WizOfOz (talk) 16:45, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

• I agree with Bjmullan; the flags detract from the article as they give it a cluttered look and there is the problem with Ulster's flag not being a flag. As they look bad, and as they contravene the relevant guidelines, and as they add nothing, they should be removed. --John (talk) 19:26, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

John there is a RFC concerning this issue here and I suggest that you add the comments above to the discussion. Thanks. Bjmullan (talk) 22:22, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Article protected

I have locked this article from editing for one week, which will hopefully allow time for this dispute to resolve. I have left some advice for the editors concerned here. - 2/0 (cont.) 00:55, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

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Jamie Hagan or Jamie Hagen

Which one is correct? Jamie Hagan or Jamie Hagen? 178.212.47.137 (talk) 18:05, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Steve Clews, Eddie Lovely and Mikal De Sanctis

Steve Clews and Eddie Lovely are not listes in qualifiers but played in UK Open: Clews with Green in round 1, Lovely with Barnard in preliminary round. Mikal de Sanctis is listed in qualifiers but didn't play in UK Open.

Please correct it. 178.212.47.137 (talk) 18:48, 22 September 2023 (UTC)