Talk:1974 Nicosia airport battle

Notability

Very little WP:SIGCOV on this event in high quality sources as being a "notable" battle during the Military operations during the Turkish invasion of Cyprus. This battle is already covered under the section 23 July 1974 in that article, and hard to see why this article would not be redirected to that section? thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 21:19, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

With that logic dont cover any battles in 1974 because theyre mentioned in that article. ShovelandSpade (talk) 19:55, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

We have separate articles on topics that get independent standalone coverage by quality independent sources. Where they don't (i.e. there doesn't seem to be anybody covering the "Battle of Nicosia Airport", they can still appear as events in larger articles that cover the larger notable overall battle. Creating a "Battle of Nicosia Airport", when no quality independent source uses that term is original research. Aszx5000 (talk) 20:09, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Think you may need to look up what original research is mate. Anyways, one of the largest battles that took place in the whole conflict with both political and military ramifications is definitely notable and has been covered by many as the sources in the main article display so im not actually sure what youre talking about, maybe there arent many books on the specific battle but I dont think thats criteria for having its own article. ShovelandSpade (talk) 10:32, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

We have specific criteria for notability, ShovelandSpade, and part of those is demonstrating that the article has seen "significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject." Claiming that the topic "has been covered by many ... sources" without proof is not adequate. Aszx5000, if you think the sourcing is not there, I would bring it to WP:AFD.

Regardless of notability, this article can't remain at this title as "Battle of Nicosia Airport" does not appear to be used in academic literature. See WP:COMMONNAME: "Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's official name as an article title; it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable, English-language sources) ..." Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 16:54, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Battle was too large and had too many implications to be included in another article. ShovelandSpade (talk) 17:18, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

@ShovelandSpade: That doesn't mean it's notable... see the first thing that I quoted above. Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 00:29, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Currently adding better sources, Im not sure where you came to the conclusion that there arent enough published secondary sources, ive done a quick search and found many. ShovelandSpade (talk) 08:53, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

I also did a search and saw sources, but the number of sources that mention the event are not a factor in notability. Whether or not those sources provide "significant coverage" of the topic does. Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 18:12, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

I mean most of these sources have at the very least chapters about the Battle of Nicosia Airport so im not sure what else you need, the details in said chapters are also generally specific so there isnt room for an OR either. ShovelandSpade (talk) 07:02, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Also can I ask why the article name was changed as if im not wrong the only time there was a battle for Nicosia airport was 1974 so adding the year is unecessary and its a lot harder to find than "battle of Nicosia Airport" ShovelandSpade (talk) 09:50, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

@ShovelandSpade: Entire chapters in academic works would likely suffice for significant coverage -> notability. Thank you. Can you name the books that have those chapters?

The article title was changed because of WP:COMMONNAME, which I quoted above, and so it should follow WP:NCEVENTS. Can you list the books that use the formulation "Battle of Nicosia Airport"? Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 15:40, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

There are not there is no "Battle of Nicosia Airport" in any quality sources that I can find, and constructing a "Battle of Nicosia Airport" is WP:OR. I would recommend that this article is merged back to its original form at Military operations during the Turkish invasion of Cyprus#23 July 1974 to avoid any related WP:FORK issues. Aszx5000 (talk) 15:55, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

As to the books, by all means, check the references as there are at least 3 in there. ShovelandSpade (talk) 18:40, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Im not lazy im just on mobile and would have to go back and fourth copy pasting. ShovelandSpade (talk) 18:40, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

There is no quality reference that refers to a "Battle of Nicosia Airport" - it is purely something that you have invented, which is OR. Just as there is no "Battle of the US Congress", even though there have been riots/violent incidences all around it, because no credible source has ever described as such. Aszx5000 (talk) 18:44, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/frozen-time-an-airport-rots-cyprus-logjam-persists-50-years-2024-07-19/

"Built in 1968, this airport was the theatre of some of the fiercest battles between Greek Cypriot troops and an invading Turkish army in 1974, prompting the United Nations to take control of the area in a ceasefire."

Next. ShovelandSpade (talk) 18:51, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

And I've just checked this was already a source which demonstrates to me that you literally aren't checking the sources that are provided you're just guessing, I don't know what your deal is nor do I care anymore as only one of us is working to fix this issue, if you're this upset about this article nominate it for deletion or whatever as you're not even putting at least the effort to see what is being said in the sources provided and I doubt you're even checking to see if these sources exist. ShovelandSpade (talk) 18:54, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Where does it say "Battle of Nicosa Airport" (and this is not a quality military reference). Nobody that I can see uses the term "Battle of Nicosa Airport". Hence, it is OR. Aszx5000 (talk) 18:55, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

"this airport was the theatre of some of the fiercest battles between Greek Cypriot troops and an invading Turkish army in 1974"

"This" (Nicosia) "airport"

"Fiercest battles" implies there was a battle.

Thus

Battle of Nicosia Airport. The end. ShovelandSpade (talk) 19:01, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Doesnt imply actually it straight out says there was a battle at the airport, anything else you say in this subject is you willingly misinterpreting whatever is being said and I'd gladly have a third party look over both this talk page and the actual article. ShovelandSpade (talk) 19:08, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

There may not be many academic sources but there is no source that says "1974 Nicosia airport battle" and again OR implies me or someone who has edited here has put in their own research or come to their own conclusion, are you now claiming there was no battle at Nicosia Airport whatsoever and its just a figment of someones imagination? Youve gone from "not enough sources" to "the sources dont explicity say a battle for Nicosia airport" (They literally all do), and now somehow that the battle is OR? Im beyond confused at this point as to what your issue with this article is as youre just jumping goalposts at this time. This article has plenty sources both academic and other published material, it fits both notability and reliability criteria for wikipedia and as to your last point about merging it, as ive previously stated, doing that will only make the military operations page 95% about the battle of Nicosia airport. ShovelandSpade (talk) 18:38, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

(EC) There is no quality reference that refers to a "Battle of Nicosia Airport" - it is purely something that you have invented, which is OR. Just as there is no "Battle of the US Congress", even though there have been riots/violent incidences all around it, because no credible source has ever described as such. Aszx5000 (talk) 18:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Reuters article disagrees ShovelandSpade (talk) 18:59, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

At this point, when two editors have tried to explain to you at length what the problems are in your edits, it does seem like there is some willful misunderstanding happening. If that's not right, please re-read what I and Aszx5000 have told you above. If it is right, I imagine you'll be blocked from editing in the near future.

Nevertheless, I will once again say that when there is no clear name for an event given in reliable sources, we follow the naming convention at WP:NCEVENTS to construct an article title. You can find all the information you need to know at that link. I've moved the article back, and would ask you to not edit war over the title. Best, Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 04:48, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

When a consensus is reached the article can remain as what is agreed upon, please refrain from threatening other editors to stop them from reverting your edits. ShovelandSpade (talk) 08:48, 1 October 2024 (UTC)