Talk:Álvaro Peña

Requested move 11 October 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved with nationality disambiguators. Consensus is for no primary topic, using unused maternal surnames is opposed, and there's opposition to the year and seems to be no opposition to the nationality. -- JHunterJ (talk) 14:36, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

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• Álvaro Peña (disambiguation) → Álvaro Peña
• Álvaro Peña → Álvaro Peña (footballer, born 1965)
• Álvaro Peña Herrero → Álvaro Peña (footballer, born 1991)
• Álvaro Enrique Peña → Álvaro Peña (footballer, born 1989)

– There is no WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for "Álvaro Peña", so DAB should be at base name: page stats [[1]]. WP:COMMONNAME for all three is "Álvaro Peña" without maternal surname or middle names, so pages should be disambiguated to standard for footballers. Ortizesp (talk) 06:36, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 16:16, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• Support per nom. GiantSnowman 16:19, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
• Strong oppose They are from different countries and nationality is always a preferred disambiguator to year of birth, so they should be Álvaro Peña (Bolivian footballer), Uruguayan footballer and Spanish footballer. The other preferable option here and the one that Wikipedia favours even more is natural disambiguation (full names, as in Spanish). Per WP:ATDAB: "Natural disambiguation: Using an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources, albeit not as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title." In any case, you haven't provided any evidence for common names, especially when Álvaro Enrique Peña is the son of José Enrique Peña; so Enrique is likely to be commonly used as middle name here. Indeed, he seems to be very commonly referred to as such, so I see no reason for the move: 1, 2, 3, 4. Anyway, strong oppose since these moves are strongly discouraged by WP:ATDAB, literally "exceptional, in most cases to be avoided per WP:CONCISE". Neodop (talk) 18:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Nationality is not preferred disambiguator for footballer, see WP:NCSP - it's up to discretion to see what's more definitive. And the general consensus I have seen is birth year over nationality. Natural disambiguation doesn't work here, because it goes against the WP:COMMONNAME of the footballers and if you want references look at literally every reference and external link for all three footballers. The legal names are not commonly used in English sources or Spanish sources, they always us one first name and one last name (the Uruguayan footballer being the only exception). And I have recommended dozens if not close to hundreds of moves that follow this logic. Either way, I am not opposed to disambiguating by nationality, if the consensus moves that way in this particular case.--Ortizesp (talk) 20:45, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
• Support Álvaro Peña (disambiguation) → Álvaro Peña per WP:NOPRIMARY. Would also support either Álvaro Peña → Álvaro Peña (footballer, born 1965) or Álvaro Peña → Álvaro Peña (Bolivian footballer) as well as either Álvaro Peña Herrero → Álvaro Peña (footballer, born 1991) or Álvaro Peña Herrero → Álvaro Peña (Spanish footballer) and also either Álvaro Enrique Peña → Álvaro Peña (footballer, born 1989) or Álvaro Enrique Peña → Álvaro Peña (Uruguayan footballer), whichever forms are preferred by consensus, as long as the maternal surnames are no longer included within the two main title headers that use such surnames. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 06:28, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
• Support 1st as there is no clear primary topic per the views between the 1965 and 1991 footballers and both articles suggest the are called "Álvaro Peña" alone but no comment on how to disambiguate or if natural disambiguation is OK. Crouch, Swale (talk) 08:55, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people)#Disambiguating: "Years of birth and death are not normally used as disambiguators (readers are more likely to be seeking this information than to already know it)". Years of birth are only used when there is no other reasonable disambiguator, such as when people of the same name have the same profession and nationality. DrKay (talk) 12:10, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
  • They have the same profession, and as per WP:NCSP birth year or nationality could be used as disambiguator. I'm not opposed to disambiguating by nationality, but I am opposed to disambiguating by maternal surnames that aren't used.@DrKay:--Ortizesp (talk) 13:59, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.