Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. Roads

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WikiProject U.S. Roads (Rated Project-class)
This page is within the scope of the U.S. Roads WikiProject, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to state highways and other major roads in the United States. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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The most recent version of jctint templates for US states did mainly the following:

  • Assign the state name to |region=.
  • Pass through a parameter to Template:Jctint/core.
  • Rename a parameter to a core parameter.
  • Build a string for a _special parameter that shares the same structure across these templates, only to differ in the state name.

The approach above has several drawbacks:

  • A parameter available in the core module not exposed by these templates becomes unavailable. Parameter additions in the core module do not propagate to these templates automatically.
  • A lot of duplicate template code is difficult to maintain.
  • These templates can only diverge from one another over time. Template users will have to memorize multiple usage when the interface for these templates could have been uniform.

For the past few days, I have converted most of these templates to use Module:Jctint/USA to eliminate the drawbacks above. You might not have seen any observable changes to articles, because you shouldn't! I am happy to report that the module now handles jctint templates for 40 out of the lower 48 states.

Before I can go into what prevents the templates for the remaining 8 states from being converted, I need to go into some technical details about how |sub2_special= was implemented for most states.

|location_special= is used by default. Certain templates permitted multiple locations to be specified as |location1= through |location4=. These parameters are concatenated as a list of wikilinks that is passed to the core module as |sub2_special=. Other templates did the same, but with townships instead of locations (see Interstate 70 in Ohio). The module handles both: |sub2param=township is used in the latter case; location is the default.

Now, why the templates for 8 states haven't been converted:

  • State name is not the correct article link (GA and WA): Road data modules should handle this.
  • Different |sub1name= (LA): Road data modules should handle this.
  • Special handling for |indep_city= (CA, CO, and MD): Road data modules should handle this.
  • Cascading |sub2_special= (MN): A list of both townships and locations are permitted, but the module doesn't support cascading yet, though it can easily be done.
  • |town= (WI): It appears that town articles are not named consistently, e.g., Bristol, Dane County, Wisconsin vs Bristol (town), Kenosha County, Wisconsin. So, I could not decide which one to use.

For more details about handling by road data modules, see Template talk:Jcttop/core#sub1name order for an idea, and Module:Road data/strings/USA/NH for an example. This is a longer-term transition, but I would like to avoid adding a boilerplate in the module when this transition is anticipated. See also Template talk:Jct#Inheritance and overriding in road data modules.

During the conversion, I noticed a beginning of divergence in some of the templates. While most states use |mile_ref=, some use |length_ref=. Specifically, templates for AL, FL, OH, OR, and TX. This parameter should be deprecated and renamed to |mile_ref=.

The module opens up other opportunities for uniformly customizing parameters for US junctions, e.g., cascading (above) and support for a list of cities. Additional customizations will not be implemented until there is evidence that they are useful for multiple states.

The templates are still fully backward compatible with the previous version, but the module might have added new features, e.g., list of locations, to some states' templates. These features have already been used in several other states' templates. I hope it is okay for every state's template to have the same leverage.

Of course, if you see any undesirable, observable changes, I will appreciate your report so I can troubleshoot. Constructive comments will also be appreciated. Chinissai (talk) 15:45, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Illinois has a mix of townships and precincts. There is no pattern that I can tell for which county uses which subdivision. –Fredddie 16:45, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Interesting. I didn't see any use of precincts in jctint as a separate parameter, so I was able to convert {{ILint}} without trouble. The module should be able to support future customization for precincts, though, perhaps by using switch tables in road data modules. Chinissai (talk) 17:08, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
California has the funny postmiles stuff - is this properly supported? --Rschen7754 18:20, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Yes, any "funny" parameters can be overridden by passing them to the module. See Template:ORint for example. It's only San Francisco that prevents me from converting CAint. Chinissai (talk) 18:46, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
On a side note, North Carolina has townships, but most, if not all, of the links don't exist, even as redirects. Charlotte Allison (Morriswa) (talk) 21:08, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Requested moveEdit

There is an RM on New York State Route 99. Needforspeed888 (talk) 14:17, 9 August 2020 (UTC)


It's becoming clear that while the portal still has value, it is not being updated as much as it used to be (especially since Dough retired). Any objections to removing the code in the portal to auto update the DYK, Selected article and selected picture on the 1st of the month? The problem is if no one has new content ready at least every 2 months, the portal breaks. If we go with static links, the portal will still display the most recent update. When someone updates teh content, time they can manually increment the dates on the portal page. Objections?Dave (talk) 19:25, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

I’m not retired (I still edit Wikipedia every day), I’m just tired of updating the portal when nobody suggests any content (other than the pictures that Fredddie did). I think it’s time to seriously consider reformatting the portal so it randomly rotates between articles, pictures, and DYK hooks every time it’s reloaded. P:MDRD already does that for pictures and DYK hooks (I should implement it for the articles as well). I think this is the best way to go forward with our portals for the future in order to minimize maintenance, as there are other things I would rather do with my editing time. Dough4872 20:11, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
I would agree, especially with the sitewide devaluation of portals and the removal of the featured portal process. --Rschen7754 21:27, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
Personally, I'd mothball it. I've never been convinced that they get a lot of external traffic. P:USRD gets about 100 visits per day, but there's no way to know how much of that is USRD people clicking through. –Fredddie 01:27, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
For me, I enjoy checking the portal from time to time to see what else is going on in the project. For some reason I got more out of the portal, than say the newsletter. Maybe resurrect the newsletter and include the portal content with it? I'm not a fan of the random content, per Fredddie's rational, it's really us that watches it, not the outside world. Once we've cycled through the 7 (or whatever) randomly selected articles, it's no longer worth visiting. Dave (talk) 03:36, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
The problem is that it's been a struggle to get people to write stuff for the newsletter, unfortunately. I think it's just a casualty of where our editors are in life and not being as active due to real-life stress. --Rschen7754 05:02, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
@Dave, if it's just us looking at the portal, we could put a box (akin to a to-do page) at the top of this page and achieve the same thing. –Fredddie 02:45, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Inclusion of protests on road articlesEdit

I have noticed a few additions to the history sections of road articles, such as Interstate 676, information regarding events that occurred on such roads, primary regarding the George Floyd protests. I feel like this info does not really belong, given that the history section is supposed to be for the road itself. Should I remove this info or is it acceptable? Needforspeed888 (talk) 03:41, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

I would remove it since the protest has nothing to do with the road, it just happened to be used for it. Dough4872 04:49, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
It would be best to roll it into other events on the highway and only if they are highly notable. For example, I included the protester deaths on Interstate 5 in Washington in a section with other protests and incidents. SounderBruce 07:37, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
If I might think out loud for a moment, I tend to agree that if events don't instigate changes to the physical footprint of the roadway then they don't belong in the history of that roadway. I also agree that highly notable events warrant inclusion. So how to strike a balance?
Maybe an imperfect analogy is along the lines of how we approach vehicle accidents. If a highway gains a reputation for being accident-prone, we cover it. If there's one that prompts design changes (proposed or actualized), we cover it in that context. If an accident receives significant coverage on its own, we include it. So if a highway has a reputation for protests, those protests are about the road itself, or the protests garner their own significant coverage, we include them. Imzadi 1979  19:51, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
My opinion is that we should leave it out since it has no overall impact to the road itself. --WashuOtaku (talk) 20:52, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
I would say proceed with caution. A 50 year old highway that is one of the primary thoroughfares of a major city, will naturally be tangentially related to dozens if not hundreds of shootings, protests, robberies, riots, accidents and the like through the years. It would be impractical to include them all, it would cause the article to be a wiley mess of news stories. There is a place for some of them, Mousetrap (Denver), I-70 Killer are two news stories listed in highway articles I work with. However, these were national news events (not just local) where the media itself noted the connection to the highway, not just that they happened to occur along the highway. As an absurd example, that SounderBruce touched on above, Can you imagine if we listed every protest that has ever occurred along the I-5 corridor in Seattle? Dave (talk) 02:21, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
The George Floyd protests and other protests related to racial inequality are very important for Wikipedia to cover as a whole and we should be careful to not exclude those just because they don't fit the usual mold of a road article. That being said - we also don't want the articles to become a lengthy verbose list of every single protest that ever happened on the road, so we do need to be selective in what gets covered. So I would be in favor of the balanced approach above. --Rschen7754 07:02, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
  • I wrote WP:CARCRASH a while ago and I think the racial protests fall in the same vein as Imzadi1979 mentioned. –Fredddie 22:59, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
  • I would include a mention if they generated large quantities of media coverage. --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 23:00, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Proposal: merge Iway with Interstate 195 (Rhode Island–Massachusetts)Edit

See the talk page of the former. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:53, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

US 1 ConnectorEdit

On the South Carolina Department of Transportation's Aiken County map (look at Sheet 6), there is a US 1 Connector shown just north of the Jefferson Davis Highway bridge over the Savannah River. However, Georgia Department of Transportation doesn't show the connector at all on any of its Richmond County maps. Is this highway real, is it current, and how do I find its exact route? Thank you. Morriswa (Charlotte Allison) (talk) 12:36, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

You also tried to add a US 25 connector that won't show up, which is on Sheet 3. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 14:27, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
I fixed my errors with the US 25 Connector.
The navigation system in my car, a 2006 Infiniti G35, is just a DVD loaded in a drive in the dashboard, has not been updated since the car was new. It shows the US 1 Connector on Bay Street, Reynolds Street, and 5th Street in downtown Augusta. I know this is not proof, but it is further information toward the existence of the highway. Morriswa (Charlotte Allison) (talk) 03:15, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
@Morriswa: are you sure these are bona fide connectors and not just streets named "US 1 Connector" or "US 25 Connector"? –Fredddie 23:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
That's a good point. It's not that uncommon for towns (especially those that depend on highway traveler revenue) to sign streets as business loops and spurs on their own volition, without authorization from the state or AASHTO. There's a few of those out west. Dave (talk) 23:43, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
US 1 Connector is an actual highway, according to the above-posted link. As I said, GDOT mentions nothing about it on the current or former Richmond County maps.
On a related note, I see that my edits on Interstate 520, U.S. Route 25 in South Carolina, and South Carolina Highway 121 were reverted. One, the overhead sign (on the traffic light wire) indicates that the street name is "US 25 Connector". According to the above-posted link, it is actually a special route that is a US 25 Connector. It's just not signed. My edits should not have been reverted. Someone could have "corrected" them to what is seen as the best option. Morriswa (Charlotte Allison) (talk) 01:55, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
I'm an adult, I can handle criticism. Your edits made it really confusing for the reader. This is what was there previously: "  US 25 Connector east (US 25 Conn. south) to I-520". Now having looked at this for the last couple days, contextually, I get that US 25 Connector (the street) heads east to I-520 while carrying northbound US 25 Conn. (the connector route). But will the casual reader get that? Probably not. Here's my gripe: the street and the connector route are essentially the same, there's no reason to repeat it with a parenthetical. The directions are WP:OR at best because there is no directional signage, so it's best to leave them out. The signage that is there, says To I-520 and the street name is US 25 Connector, that's why I kept changing it to "  To I-520 (US 25 Connector)". I will have no problem if you want it to say "  To I-520 (US 25 Connector)". –Fredddie 02:45, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

South Carolina highway shieldsEdit

I want to put in a request for new shields for the List of state highways in South Carolina page, but I need to verify what years each version of the shields belong to. For example, I was told that for Georgia, the highways from years 1920-1947 use the 1920-specific shield, those from years 1948-1959 use the 1948-specific shield, and those from years 1960-2000 use the 1960-specific shield. I'm still compiling a list of years for all of the former state highways I can find, so it may take a while for me to make my request. Morriswa (Charlotte Allison) (talk) 21:27, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Did you review this page: South Carolina State Highway System --WashuOtaku (talk) 21:44, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for pointing that out. I quickly glanced at it, but I didn't read it in-depth until just now. It helped. Morriswa (Charlotte Allison) (talk) 02:00, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

Module:Road data/strings/USA/SCEdit

I think I messed up something when I edited the Module:Road data/strings/USA/SC page. The current South Carolina Highway shields appear. Could someone tell me what I did wrong? Morriswa (Charlotte Allison) (talk) 17:53, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

@Morriswa: In the infobox or the RJL? The shield at the top of the infobox doesn't use the string modules. The shields in {{jct}} are broken right now. -happy5214 18:25, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
I think its the RJL. I copied part of the code from the Module:Road data/strings/USA/GA page and modified them for SC. Maybe part of it is incompatible. Morriswa (Charlotte Allison) (talk) 18:31, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
  Fixed it wasn't calling the SC shields correctly. If you mess up like that (I do it all the time), the best thing to do is to revert yourself first and then ask questions. –Fredddie 03:18, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
@Fredddie and Imzadi1979:, thank you for correcting the mistakes in my bold editing. The expensive parser function calls is what caused me to split the List of state highways in South Carolina page to have a List of former state highways in South Carolina page, but that was reverted. Can the former page still actually exist? Morriswa (Charlotte Allison) (talk) 05:23, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
@Morriswa: This is probably not the place, but if you are curious I attempted to modify the SC list similar as I did with the NC list, but never got around to actually finishing and implementing it. Might give you some ideas perhaps. --WashuOtaku (talk) 12:06, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
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