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Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. Roads

WikiProject U.S. Roads (Rated Project-class)
This page is within the scope of the U.S. Roads WikiProject, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to state highways and other major roads in the United States. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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Contents

Module:Jctint/USAEdit

The most recent version of jctint templates for US states did mainly the following:

  • Assign the state name to |region=.
  • Pass through a parameter to Template:Jctint/core.
  • Rename a parameter to a core parameter.
  • Build a string for a _special parameter that shares the same structure across these templates, only to differ in the state name.

The approach above has several drawbacks:

  • A parameter available in the core module not exposed by these templates becomes unavailable. Parameter additions in the core module do not propagate to these templates automatically.
  • A lot of duplicate template code is difficult to maintain.
  • These templates can only diverge from one another over time. Template users will have to memorize multiple usage when the interface for these templates could have been uniform.

For the past few days, I have converted most of these templates to use Module:Jctint/USA to eliminate the drawbacks above. You might not have seen any observable changes to articles, because you shouldn't! I am happy to report that the module now handles jctint templates for 40 out of the lower 48 states.

Before I can go into what prevents the templates for the remaining 8 states from being converted, I need to go into some technical details about how |sub2_special= was implemented for most states.

|location_special= is used by default. Certain templates permitted multiple locations to be specified as |location1= through |location4=. These parameters are concatenated as a list of wikilinks that is passed to the core module as |sub2_special=. Other templates did the same, but with townships instead of locations (see Interstate 70 in Ohio). The module handles both: |sub2param=township is used in the latter case; location is the default.

Now, why the templates for 8 states haven't been converted:

  • State name is not the correct article link (GA and WA): Road data modules should handle this.
  • Different |sub1name= (LA): Road data modules should handle this.
  • Special handling for |indep_city= (CA, CO, and MD): Road data modules should handle this.
  • Cascading |sub2_special= (MN): A list of both townships and locations are permitted, but the module doesn't support cascading yet, though it can easily be done.
  • |town= (WI): It appears that town articles are not named consistently, e.g., Bristol, Dane County, Wisconsin vs Bristol (town), Kenosha County, Wisconsin. So, I could not decide which one to use.

For more details about handling by road data modules, see Template talk:Jcttop/core#sub1name order for an idea, and Module:Road data/strings/USA/NH for an example. This is a longer-term transition, but I would like to avoid adding a boilerplate in the module when this transition is anticipated. See also Template talk:Jct#Inheritance and overriding in road data modules.

During the conversion, I noticed a beginning of divergence in some of the templates. While most states use |mile_ref=, some use |length_ref=. Specifically, templates for AL, FL, OH, OR, and TX. This parameter should be deprecated and renamed to |mile_ref=.

The module opens up other opportunities for uniformly customizing parameters for US junctions, e.g., cascading (above) and support for a list of cities. Additional customizations will not be implemented until there is evidence that they are useful for multiple states.

The templates are still fully backward compatible with the previous version, but the module might have added new features, e.g., list of locations, to some states' templates. These features have already been used in several other states' templates. I hope it is okay for every state's template to have the same leverage.

Of course, if you see any undesirable, observable changes, I will appreciate your report so I can troubleshoot. Constructive comments will also be appreciated. Chinissai (talk) 15:45, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Illinois has a mix of townships and precincts. There is no pattern that I can tell for which county uses which subdivision. –Fredddie 16:45, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Interesting. I didn't see any use of precincts in jctint as a separate parameter, so I was able to convert {{ILint}} without trouble. The module should be able to support future customization for precincts, though, perhaps by using switch tables in road data modules. Chinissai (talk) 17:08, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
California has the funny postmiles stuff - is this properly supported? --Rschen7754 18:20, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Yes, any "funny" parameters can be overridden by passing them to the module. See Template:ORint for example. It's only San Francisco that prevents me from converting CAint. Chinissai (talk) 18:46, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
On a side note, North Carolina has townships, but most, if not all, of the links don't exist, even as redirects. Charlotte Allison (Morriswa) (talk) 21:08, 17 May 2016 (UTC)


County road terminologyEdit

I don't recall this having been discussed before, and if it was it probably wasn't recently. In any case, it's Minnesota-specific.

Should county state-aid highways be referred to in text as "CSAH" or "County Road"? I've been seeing a lot of recent edits like this which have me wondering. "CSAH" ("see-saw"?) is not common vernacular and the vast majority of people would say simply "County Road x", so I'd lean towards using that outside of junction lists, but I know that specificity is sometimes preferred instead. Thoughts? --Sable232 (talk) 00:22, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

I am not familiar with the term, but then again not every state has a county road program (or at least where I edit). If you were to use CSAH, you'll have to spell out the acronym each time (at least once per article). --WashuOtaku (talk) 00:28, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
County State-Aid Highway is just a classification of county roads for funding purposes. If you and I were talking, we'd say County Road X or maybe County X, which is how county roads are displayed on guide signs in Minnesota. The Jct module used to output "County X" but it was changed a couple years ago. –Fredddie 00:52, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
Personally, I'd spell out "County State-Aid Highway 1 (CSAH 1)" on first usage and then continue with the abbreviation conventions from there. If needed I'd also use a "County Road 2 (CR 2)" in text as well. While I could support the idea of consolidating them all to just "County Road"/"CR" nomenclature, there is the issue of the counties that use the blue pentagons for CSAHs and white squares for CRs. In those cases, it's confusing to see both marker types used in the article without any indication why. I trust our readers to be smart enough to take in the distinction if we use it appropriately. So by the principle of least astonishment, I'd rather give a little more information than less and potentially confuse people. Imzadi 1979  01:44, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Interstates 102, 106, 109 and 113Edit

Redirects Interstate 102, Interstate 106 (California), Interstate 109 and Interstate 113 have been nominated for deletion, the discussions are all listed at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 July 19. You are invited to leave your comments there. Thryduulf (talk) 10:21, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Merge proposalEdit

USRD banner attention flagEdit

I've been monitoring Category:U.S. road articles needing attention for some time and realized that it had become sort of a catch-all for articles that nobody wants to work on. Quite a few articles were in decent shape, so I made the BOLD decision to empty the category and start over. I tried make the attention flags and categories more intuitive. I started by editing the banner to no longer sort pages needing attention by state or topic. I also placed some maintenance categories under the attention category. As it is now, the attention category lists categories with articles that need a pair of eyes to look at them. You can still add the attention flag to articles, but if possible, I would use the other parameters listed on {{WikiProject U.S. Roads}} first. –Fredddie 03:18, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

US Route 70 Business (Beaufort, North Carolina)Edit

US 70 routing changed last year in Beaufort, North Carolina and a business loop was signed. However, NCDOT documentation doesn't correlate with the business route signing. I contacted NCDOT and after a few weeks got a response that the business route was incorrectly signed and gave documentation of its correct SR designations.

So the question is how go about updating the article: do we remove it completely, leave as is, update as discontinued, update as proposed or other? --WashuOtaku (talk) 13:34, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

Without looking into it, are you saying the NCDOT and AASHTO documents about the same route don't agree? –Fredddie 13:37, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
Both NCDOT and AASHTO documents do not have a Business loop in Beaufort, North Carolina; signage of a business loop was physically placed nonetheless (you can use Google Streetview to see business 70 signs). --WashuOtaku (talk) 13:41, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

New York City Street Name SignsEdit

I already posted this issue in the commons, but I really need a clear definition of all the types of street name signs used in some of the more specific sections of New York City in order to diffuse that category. The pre-1984 borough-specific colors would've been much easier to deal with by comparison. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 03:28, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Should browsing include redlinks?Edit

Interstate 295 (Delaware–Pennsylvania) has the previous route for the PA browse as PA 294; similar situations exist for "neighboring" routes. Having redlinks in browsing seems to defeat the purpose of browsing. What should be done here? Needforspeed888 (talk) 01:36, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

All redlinks should be created as articles or redirects eventually. I don't think routes should be removed from the browse simply because an article or redirect hasn't been made yet. I should note that some states omit former routes from the browse such as Maryland, while others like Pennsylvania include them. Dough4872 01:56, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
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