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Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music/Music genres task force/Colours

blackEdit

Dear 156.34.211.41. Ok. Heavy Metal includes bands such as Led Zeppelin or Jimi Hendrix and Cannibal Corpse or Mayhem. These bands are not only musically pretty really very different, so these subgenres should have another colour. It is not only mine opinion. Black for extreme metal beacause it very often deals with satanic, occult or just negative and aggressive piont of view, or what do you wanna hear?- that black colour expresses exactly this musical genre? that most of this musicians wear black clothes? That black colour is the coulour of this music or what? And at first - Please stop talking about POV. Show me some objectivity of Wikipedia:WikiProject Music genres/Colours. There are actually no rules for this--Lykantrop (Talk) 08:05, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

All heavy metal related pages should be one color. That color has already been chosen and it's not black. Cannibal Corpse or Mayhem wouldn't exist without Hendrix or Zeppelin coming first. No mater what sub-genre they fall under. They're all just heavy metal in the end. The color needs to be consistent for all sub-genres. Fair Deal (talk) 21:25, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Ok--Lykantrop (Talk) 10:37, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Purple not good for ReggaeEdit

Nobody at the reggae article was consulted on what would be a representative color, it seems. Red, Yellow and Green are the representative colors, please don't use purple, and please do not impose "decisions" that are not widely known and then say "See? it's all already been decided on this page that you all did not know about". Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 20:46, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Since green was being used and was free I have changed the color from purple to green. As principle if a colour is being used and there is no clash it seems logical to list that here.--SabreBD (talk) 14:23, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Zydeco etcEdit

Some kind of green is useful for Lousiana based music but the chartreuse (colour) used it rather violent. I would like to argue for a change to something a bit more subtle.--SabreBD (talk) 18:22, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Reggaeton and Latin American MusicEdit

At the moment the colour used for Reggaeton articles and its sub-genres is red. Is the genre so unique that it should be considered completely seperate from reggae (green) and hip hop (navyblue)? Before you answer, please consider this is the context of Wikipedia as a whole, not just because you love Reggaeton. As it happens red is free as a colour at the moment and I am certainly not against its use, but only if this helps readers, by indicating something very different from the two major genres of music from which it was hybrydized.--SabreBD (talk) 12:58, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Red is being used not just for Reggaeton, but quite a few sub-genres. Others have random colours. If there are no objections in reasonable time I will try to change them all over to red. I cannot see much point in having a single genre with one colour. This would affect the following:

--SabreBD (talk) 11:40, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Hi-NRGEdit

Category Colour-Code Colour-Name Comments
Hi-NRG #DDBBBB includes eurodance,
eurobeat and new beat

I propose Hi-NRG color separation from electronic dance music and disco music, because of its variety of subgenres. Yea or nay? ItsAlwaysLupus (talk) 20:15, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Yay as far as I am concerned. There needs to be some differentiation in electronic music, I was just not sure where to put it, this looks like a good plan.--SabreBD (talk) 20:32, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, I think it's a good idea, because change is needed, you know something new and fresh. ItsAlwaysLupus (talk) 21:45, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Slight issue is that the colour shown is not #ddbbbb, but mediumvioletred, which is already taken. Which colour is proposed?--SabreBD (talk) 22:04, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Hi-NRG Color no. 3060D0 (or black) with dbdbbb background. ItsAlwaysLupus (talk) 13:00, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

WhyEdit

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music#Remove colours in genre navboxes?

Why are these colours needed the seem a bit WP:OR to me and ignore WP:NAVBOXCOLOUR in the case that no properly identifying, accessible color exists; or the subject of the navbox should not be identified with a particular color (e.g. an average biography), the default navbox color should be used. Gnevin (talk) 15:07, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

This whole color scheme thing does seem unjustified and unnecessary. I note that the entire task force (of which this is a subpage) was flagged as "historical" over four years ago, as being either "no longer relevant or consensus on its purpose has become unclear." Suggest flagging this subpage, as well. --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 22:07, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
Should these be all removed ? Gnevin (talk) 11:07, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
Actually move to the active parent talk page Gnevin (talk) 11:09, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
The colours are in fact very useful for the purposes of identification in infoboxes. Whether they are useful in navboxes is another matter.--SabreBD (talk) 23:46, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
How so? Is there any previous discussion you can point us to? --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 16:20, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Classical musicEdit

This (#efefef) colour appears to be in use for Classical music via the Template:History of Western art music. Would it be ok if I added it to this list? --Devin Murphy (talk) 03:59, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Black for uptempo electronic music genres?Edit

Since heavy metal as rock subgenre has its own color, wouldn't it be fair to make 2nd color for other electronic music genres that aren't currently listed? My edits have been reverted by user Sabrebd, however it appears he doesn't want further discuss this matter.<br\> Webfire[1] AKA 94.113.230.22 (talk) 08:28, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

You should not take me not replying on my talkpage for ten hours as evidence of not wanting to talk. I have to sleep occasionally. I do not think that electronic dance music is so different that it warrants another colour, given that different forms are often closely related to styles such as house, techno, and trance. It makes more sense to keep them under one colour. If we do this then it will open the gates for other special claims for forms of electronic music.--SabreBD (talk) 08:56, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
House, trance, techno = 4/4 time signature, slower bpm. Jungle, d'n'b, hardcore techno = usually using samples and incorporates breakbeats(characterized by the use of a non-straightened (percussion instruments do not play directly on beat) 4/4 drum pattern (as opposed to the steady beat of house, techno and trance)), faster bpm, sometimes listed as other EM subgenres in certain navboxes.<br\>
Webfire[2] AKA 94.113.230.22 (talk) 09:18, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
Edit: And if you are concerned about other claims by EM in the future, it is very unlikely because House, Techno, Trance, Jungle, d'n'b, hardcore techno, breakbeat are the basic subgenres of EM and everything else is just fusion or another subgenre of these. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.113.230.22 (talk) 09:33, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
Sorry I remain unconvinced that this is necessary. Electronic genres are a nightmare to retain consistency and it would be unwise to generate the potential for more confusion.--SabreBD (talk) 10:27, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
You do not listen to electronic music very often, do you? Because EM genres aren't as inconsistent as you think. I would try to convince you further, however I don't think that single person has the right to decide this. Consensus it is then.<br\>
Webfire[3] AKA 94.113.230.22 (talk) 10:45, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
Edit: In addition I can provide a link[4] to Electronic music's guide, so that you educate yourself on this matter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.113.230.22 (talk) 10:57, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
Please do not make such assumptions about other editors. We can always post at relevant projects if you want to generate a wider debate.--SabreBD (talk) 10:59, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
I agree, dialogue here isn't going to solve anything.<br\>
Webfire[5] AKA 94.113.230.22 (talk) 11:14, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
  • I don't have expertise in those genres, but to me a separate color just for that does not seem needed or warranted.North8000 (talk) 11:17, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
I'm a minimalist anyway, I would use one color scheme for everything so no surprise I'm against any additional ones. Mdebellis (talk) 12:15, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
  • If you just want to classify all electronic genres with one color (assuming we cannot have duplicates, which isn't a good idea in my opinion), I'd just go with purple. Or switch Afropop to #D2691E (which in my opinion, has a more African color to it) and make dance be deepskyblue. ViperSnake151  Talk  21:51, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Heavy metalEdit

Here, I proposed all infoboxes and navboxes on articles in the Category:Heavy metal and Category:Heavy metal subgenres namespaces be themed with a black background and silver bold text (I originally proposed the navboxes be themed invertedly, but we may want to keep things uniform). I think this theme is appropriate considering the genre. I would not mind receiving input from a wide swath of editors, since this has been proposed (albeit not formally) several times in the past. — Confession0791 talk 21:04, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Just to repeat my opposition. The exiting colours are fine and of long standing. They are part of a wider colour scheme (red for rock and variations for punk and heavy metal). I am not even sure this combination will be very easy to see and have not yet seen any rationale for the change.--SabreBD (talk) 22:31, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
Just to note, there is no variation for punk rock music. Both rock and punk infoboxes are coded in crimson.--MASHAUNIX 09:53, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
What's curious to me, is that Raggaeton, Country, and Tango also fall under the "red" category. So the color scheme you speak of being rock music falling under the red color scheme, it doesn't wash. — Confession0791 talk 06:40, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
Metal has become a much wider genre now. It's long away from just a variation of rock. I think the proposed colour changes would be great for Metal. Can we try that out in a sandbox? I'nt know how to do that. canaar (talk) 03:25, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
I am still waiting for some kind or rationale for this proposed change.--SabreBD (talk) 16:18, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
Why does The Simpsons have themed templates? It's a matter of pride and making things more interesting for both the editors and readers. That's all. — Confession0791 talk 18:01, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

New Age and Space musicEdit

I changed "new age and space music" to #8d9092 so it would be close to silver and those indicate its relatedness to "electronic music". --Devin Murphy (talk) 11:55, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

A capella for #ddbbbbEdit

The barbershop music infobox is using #ddbbbb, and has done so since 2009. Since the color is unclaimed and there doesn't seem to be any infobox color yet for a capella genres, I'm going to add it if it's all right with everyone else. LifeofTau 08:44, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Use of white textEdit

Using white text in headings for both links and plain text hinder usability. Is there another color that would be suitable to differentiate between the two? Going further, is it maybe just time to deprecate the genre colors altogether? Ibadibam (talk) 00:58, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

Should Funk be a different colour than Soul?Edit

Hiya, this is Atomicdowg321. I'm fairly new to Wikipedia.

So I noticed that the genres and sub genres of both Funk and Soul are orange which I personally don't fully agree with. In my opinion, I think it might be better to have Funk be a different colour, like Teal. Again, this is just my personal preference and doesn't have to be put into effect. Leave any suggestions you have, cheers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Atomicdowg321 (talkcontribs) 11:35, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Hello Atomicdawg321, and apologies for the belatedness of this reply. I do agree that there is enough of a distinct difference between soul, which is generally emphatic and vocal-driven, and funk, which is generally rhythmic and groove-oriented, that separate coloring would not be unreasonable. With that said, I think we should recognize that because there is no set limit to the amount of specifity that can be achieved with the genre categories, we need to be reasonable in how far we allow them to be separated—people will always be able to find additional ways to create new divisions. I think a better change would be to include the funk genres with the gold color category designated for disco, which I find to be much more similar in its characteristics to it than either is to soul. I want to make it clear that I am not inherently opposed to any splitting-off regarding the genre categories, but I believe it should be avoided if an alternative solution can be agreed to be appropriate. As is is the case with your comment, these are nothing more than my opinions, and I am open to further discussion. LifeofTau 20:29, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

MOS:COLOR complianceEdit

@Grapesoda22: While I am not opposed to modifying this page to meet the contrast requirements made at MOS:COLOR, I do take issue with your attempts to make unilateral, wide-scale changes without consulting any other users. While compliance with the accessibility guideline is an important issue, it is clearly not an emergency that would justify such behavior; this guide for music genre colors is in wide use and, in most cases, has been adhered to for more than a decade. With that said, I invite you and any other interested users to discuss possible alterations to this page.

Although the WCAG Level AA minimum contrast level of 4.5 is already met by white text on a crimson background, black text on a #8D9092 (dark red) background, white text on a #BB0022 (dark red) background, white text on a green background, and text on a gray background, there are a number of instances on the page in which the text and background do not: reggaeton (white on red), ska (white on #FF8020), samba (white on olive), rumba (white on seagreen), and Afropop (white on deepskyblue), as well as the unclaimed chocolate color that uses white text. In all of these cases, I think the best and least-extreme solution is to simply alter the specified text color from white to black, which in each instance would result in a combination that has a sufficient contrast level. I have laid this out in the following table, which allows visualization of the proposed changes:

Genre
category
Current
status
Proposed
change
WCAG
compliant?
Reggaeton Example Example Yes
Ska Example Example Yes
Samba Example Example Yes
Rumba Example Example Yes
Afropop Example Example Yes
Unclaimed Example Example Yes

I should be noted that while the page specifies that folk genres should use black text on a goldenrod background, a combination with sufficient contrast, most of the infoboxes for folk genres instead opt for white text, which is insufficient. In this case I would say that manually changing the text color for each of these infoboxes is the best option. LifeofTau 07:21, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

I was actually about to start a discussion on such a change.

Genre Colors RfCEdit

The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
While there is no clear consensus on whether the colors should be changed or not, there was a clear consensus to continue using music genre color coding in infoboxes, and that we should comply with the guidelines of MOS:COLOR. Based on the discussion, there appears to be a difference in opinion as to whether the colors currently in use are in fact in accordance with guideline, which was not resolved. (non-admin closure) signed, Rosguill talk 22:28, 7 June 2019 (UTC)


Music genre infoboxes are currently color-coded based on what overarching genre they are a part of. Some of these color combinations do not meet contrast guidelines set out at MOS:COLOR. A) Should these shades be changed, B) should the colors be left alone, or C) should another system be put in place? RfC relisted by Cunard (talk) at 23:46, 21 April 2019 (UTC). Mooeena💌✒️ 06:27, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Or D) Should color not be used this way? This was proposed by the nominator in a later comment, below. I've refactored this to make the four options of the RfC more visible and to have A–D lettering for easier reference.  — SMcCandlish ¢ 😼  01:32, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

I think equally as important is that differently-colored infoboxes for genres ultimately impart no additional information to the reader. There is no indication on the infobox itself that the color relates to a genre (or in some cases, super-family of genres) or has any particular meaning whatsoever. The only guide to the colors exist on this page.
I believe that for both of these reasons the bgcolor and color parameters in {{Infobox music genre}} and music genre footers should be deprecated. There's really no reason that they need to be colored other than that's how we've always done it. Mooeena💌✒️ 23:05, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Find a WCAG 2.0 colour compliant way of representing the information. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:29, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
    • @Walter Görlitz: This isn't a support/oppose RfC, it's four-option multiple choice. I've taken the liberty of refactoring a little to make this clearer.  — SMcCandlish ¢ 😼  01:32, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
  • A: Change the shades to be WCAG-compliant. But check with the WT:WPACCESS and WT:MOSACCESS crowd. I'm not certain that the table above this RfC is accurate; what I see at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility/Colors seems to suggest paler backgrounds for dark text, and darker backgrounds for light text, though the table above doesn't seem to be too far off (or, possibly, that MoS supplement is outdated). While I agree with the nominator that the color-coding doesn't really add much, it's not actually a detriment if re-done properly, and there aren't any rules against it. We use color-coded infoboxes in many places (e.g. between organism orders in Template:Taxobox, etc.), and it has not broken anything, so I can't support option D (no color). But "do nothing" (option B) isn't an option either; this is not ToHellWithPeopleWhoHaveVisionIssuesPedia – we're not going to intentionally do anti-accessibility things when we know there's a problem to resolve. Option C is meaningless without some other system being proposed.  — SMcCandlish ¢ 😼  01:32, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
  • B: No change to colors. The WCAG 2.0 guideline contains three levels of compliance. The first level is "A", and "must" be followed. The second level is "AA", and "should" be followed. The third level is "AAA" which "may" be followed.[6] The AA level calls for a contrast ratio of 4.5:1, which we already meet with our genre infoboxes. The 4.5-to-1 ratio is specified at MOS:COLOR, as it helps users who have approximately 20/40 vision impairment, and are not using contacts or glasses. The W3C organization determined that the AA level of 4.5:1 contrast is required for compliance. The same group describes the AAA level of 7:1 ratio as an "enhanced contrast" compliance level, which is not required. The explanation is that the AAA level is designed to help users with a visual impairment of 20/80, but the W3C group notes that such users habitually use contacts or glasses to bring their vision nearer the norm.[7] Eyesight of 20/80 is bad enough to fail a driving test in most jurisdictions, unless vision correction is used. That is why the AAA level is not required – in practice, nobody needs this higher contrast. The problem of having a huge list of articles appearing in the Category:Articles using Template:Infobox music genre with invalid colour combination list is a problem of coding... the backend code should be assessing articles for the AA level, not the AAA level. We should tell the Wikimedia programmers that they need to change the mechanism from AAA to AA. Binksternet (talk) 21:52, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
Actually, that category is populated by Template:Infobox music genre. If you check the infobox's code, the contrast ratio is being checked by Template:Ensure AAA contrast ratio; in other words, it is already doing the check for AAA. The category is just deceptively named, if the AAA standard is indeed fully optional (I haven't checked). If that is the case, we should probably rename the category. If we do that, however, we should also enable tracking functionality for AA contrast to track genuinely problematic transclusions. That would be simple enough, given that Template:Ensure AA contrast ratio also exists. Compassionate727 (T·C) 16:48, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Comply with MOS:COLOR I am responding to this after an alert from the RfC bot service. I know little about this issue. If I understand correctly, this RfC is presented as whether there should be special exemption for WikiProject Music compliance with the manual of style recommendations for color. To that I say no. If MOS:Color is ambiguous in this case then take this discussion outside the context of music and put it as a general question for MOS standards. What applies everywhere should apply here too. If there is lack of clarity then present this as a case for reviewers there to amend the manual of style with a general recommendation. The outcome of this should begin with MOS:Color compliance in whatever way is quickest with less effort, and from that point, anyone can make alterations. Blue Rasberry (talk) 14:10, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Religious musicEdit

I think we should have a colour for religious music in general. We have Contemporary Christian and Klezmer, but I think a colour for other forms of religious music in genre would also be quite good. --Rubensbathsheba (talk) 14:38, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Return to the project page "WikiProject Music/Music genres task force/Colours".