Wikipedia talk:Japan-related topics notice board/Apr-Jun

Tokuyama

Hi! I am going through lists of articles that we do not have, and I found this place in the Yamaguchi Prefecture. It surprised me, because I thought we had most Japanese towns. Can anyone help with this? Thanks. Danny 11:56, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Tokuyama merged two years ago with other muncipalities to form Shunan city. Photojpn.org 13:33, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Rebun village the same as Rebun town?

I ran across a reference to 礼文村 in the Esashi, Hokkaido (Soya) article which was romanicized (in the article) as ???. I changed the ??? to a link to Rebun, Hokkaido, which I assume is the same place (town now instead of village), but I haven't been able to verify this. Can anyone help? Thanks. -- Rick Block 17:44, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

There may be no direct relation between Rebun, Hokkaido and Rebun village which once existed in Esashi district. Rebun, Hokkaido is an isolated island in Japan Sea, while Esashi district is a part of Hokkaido mainland which faces on Okhotsk Sea. Pitan 18:51, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I've changed the text in Esashi, Hokkaido (Soya) to indicate Rebun village and town may not be related. -- Rick Block 22:02, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Sobetsu or Soubetsu?

The article on this town in Hokkaido is currently named Soubetsu, Hokkaido. I've run across references where the town name is romanicized as Sobetsu (quick google count shows something like 1500 references to Sobetsu but only 85 to Soubetsu). There should clearly be a redirect between these names, but should the article itself be Sobetsu, Hokkaido or Soubetsu, Hokkaido? -- Rick Block 18:42, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The article in the Japanese Wikipedia has そうべつちょう as the pronunciation, so clearly the vowel in Japanese is "long." As to the title in the English Wikipedia, I think we should write "Sobetsu" by analogy with "Tokyo" and "Kyoto" and "Hokkaido." (No, the analogy is not on the basis of fame!) The vowel sequence "ou" is not Hepburn. Fg2 07:31, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)

From the Japan-related Manual of Style: article titles must use short vowels and omit apostrophes after syllabic n since macrons are difficult to enter and proper use of apostrophes cannot be expected from people not familiar with Japanese CES 12:00, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I've moved the article to Sobetsu, Hokkaido. Soubetsu, Hokkaido remains as a redirect. Thanks. -- Rick Block 01:17, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Sakura

A user has proposed moving the article "Sakura" to "Cherry blossom." I've suggested alternate titles including "Cherry tree (ornamental)." If you have an opinion, please see the discussion page for Sakura and the Requested Moves page linked from there. Fg2 07:50, Apr 16, 2005 (UTC)

Meet-up in Tokyo

I was wondering if any Japanese Wikipedians ever organize any face-to-face meetings in Tokyo or elsewhere in Japan. If you do hold meetings, please invite me too. Otherwise, I'd like hold a friendly meeting in Tokyo. If you're interested, send me a note and tell me what days are best for you to meet. Photojpn.org 09:24, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

There were some meetups in Tokyo. If you can read Japanese ja:Wikipedia:オフラインミーティング would be helpful. If not, meetup.com can serve you. Or I recommend you to contact User:Suisui, one of active JA Wikipedians. --Aphaea* 03:00, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

new city in Oita

What should the article name be for 豊後大野市 (a newly formed city in Oita)? The city's website is http://www.bungo-ohno.jp/. I've added a link to Bungo-ono, Oita from Chitose, Oita, but before creating the article I thought I'd check what the name should actually be. Thanks. -- Rick Block 19:27, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I was about to say the article should be named Bungoono, Oita (Bungoōno outside the article title), when I realized that the name looks really strange because of the double o. On the other hand, I don't remember seeing any Japanese municipality articles that have hyphens in the city name (eg. Aizuwakamatsu, Kitaaizu). That said, I would go with Bungo-ono, Oita. I can't find anything in the Wikipedia Japan Manual of Style against the hyphen, and I feel it would be less suprising for most people looking for the article. Atsi Otani 02:12, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

However, there is already a Bungotakada, Oita, without a hyphen. Bungoōno looks a little strange ... but we do have a precendent already with Bungotakada. CES 02:48, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Precedents aside, I'd suggest [[Bungo Ōno]]. Fg2 07:32, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I should not have put a macron on the article title. I suggest [[Bungo Ono]] instead. But in terms of precedents, there's also Hitachinaka, Ibaraki, and they spell it as one word on their web site. Fg2 11:24, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

I favor Bungo-Ono (hyphen and capital O), and have a redirect for Bungo-Ohno. But Wikipedia is inclined not to use a hyphen. This is another thing which I don't understand and disagree with Wikipedia. Hyphens should be allowed in place names. This is not even mentioned in the Style guide (obviously does not cover everything). I favor the way JR romanizes the train station names. They use hyphens. If there is a Bungo-Ono Station, try and find out how they spell it. Photojpn.org 10:32, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

This would be my second choice after Bungo Ono. Fg2 11:24, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, didn't know that you shouldn't use hyphens in article titles. I thought it would be alright since you frequently see hyphens in road signs. I guess if that's the policy, the article should either become Bungoono or Bungo Ono. Either way, we should definetely have redirects from spellings like Bungo-Ohno to make it less surprising for people. I personally find Bungoono nearly impossible to read correctly, but it should work with good redirects and would make it easier to avoid future similar debates, especially if no-hyphens/no spaces in Japanese municipality names becomes some sort of a rule.Atsi Otani 14:04, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

For some strange reason, Wikipedia is not using hyphens. So for place names like this, I would add a note in parentheses in the first sentence saying "(also spelled as "Bungo-Ohno," "Bungo-ono,") etc. I think this would be picked up in searches and might be more efficient than creating redirect pages. The O needs a macron too. Photojpn.org 23:46, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. Atsi Otani 08:23, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Nagasaki, Kyoto, Hiroshima Page Move Proposals

A proposal has been made to move the article Nagasaki, Nagasaki to Nagasaki. The discussion is taking place at Talk:Nagasaki, Nagasaki. Please visit that article and make your opinions known. Fg2 01:58, May 2, 2005 (UTC)

The proposer has withdrawn the proposal, and instead, proposed to change the names of the articles Hiroshima and Kyoto to Hiroshima, Hiroshima and Kyoto, Kyoto. The discussions are now at Talk:Hiroshima and Talk:Kyoto. Fg2 04:19, May 2, 2005 (UTC)

Another user has again proposed the same thing for Nagasaki. Fg2 00:43, May 3, 2005 (UTC)

Tokyo article on Commons

The article on Tokyo on Wikimedia Commons needs organization. I invite suggestions on the talk page. Speakers of other languages are welcome to post similar invitations in the other Wikipedias and sister projects. Fg2 00:42, May 3, 2005 (UTC)

Kigo

I have recently done a bunch of changes and additions to the Kigo article. Although there are still a few more tweeks and formatting changes that I know I want to make, I think that it is close to being ready for submission to Peer review with the intent to then submit it as a Featured article candidate after the peer review. I would appreciate any comments, edits, etc. that anyone wants to make. Also, I am still looking for a few more good photos to illustrate some of the kigo in the article. BlankVerse ∅ 11:53, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Naruto renaming

A user is requesting Naruto (manga) be moved to Naruto, and the current contents of Naruto be moved to Naruto (disambiguation). Please comment at talk:Naruto (manga). -- Rick Block 04:46, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Vote closed, no concensus for it is moved. Thank you for your participation. --Aphaea* 07:25, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Japanese COTW

I am trying to revive Wikipedia:Japanese Collaboration of the Week. If you are interest in expanding or newly submitting an article, please give a look. --Aphaea* 04:21, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

Hokkaido history

Does anyone object to the recent change added to Hokkaido Prefecture#History by user:Socrates999? Sounds POV-ish to me, but I know essentially nothing about Japanese history. -- Rick Block 17:01, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

That is similar to saying "the Europeans invaded and annexed the native American's homeland". I don't know whether it is POV or not. --Pitan 17:33, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

I don't opposed anyone who calls it invasion and annexation is a historical fact, though the word invasion would mislead our readers, because there were not so many military confrontations except some rebellions in the Edo period.

I noticed more "Starting in the Heian era, the Japanese have steadily invaded Ainu lands, driving them out." It is a POV because there is a dispute if "Emishi" in ancient documents and Ainu are identical; and "driven out" would be inacurate as for Toyoku, Southern Tohoku in particular. -Aphaea*

Got a bit bold and edited the history section based upon the Japanese wikipedia's article. The Japanese article may be pro-Japan, so it would be nice if anybody who knows their Hokkaido and Ainu history could check what I did. Atsi Otani 07:10, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Informal name for former Mikata-cho

Can anyone add the romanization for the current informal name of Mikata, Hyogo? The towns that merged into Kami, Hyogo (Mikata) are known as -ku according to the Japanese wikipedia, but I don't know the transliteration of 小代区. Thanks. -- Rick Block 19:22, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

Ojiro-ku. The Japanese Post Office has a page for city-town-village mergers, and they indicate pronunciation there using katakana. It's here. Fg2 00:25, May 8, 2005 (UTC)

Japanese Imperialism

Together with Chinese Imperialism this was recently started by User:Socrates999. Neither is a complete or NPOV account. Rewrites and expansion are certainly welcome. -- ran (talk) 21:40, May 7, 2005 (UTC)

I've taken another look: perhaps the best option would be to reorganize a number of related articles like Empire of Japan, Japanese nationalism, and of course, the new article Japanese imperialism. -- ran (talk) 22:19, May 7, 2005 (UTC)

Destroyed Buildings

I apologize if this is not the right place to ask it, but I have been looking for a category on buildings or structures that are no longer extant. In the last few weeks, I have created articles for Ishiyama Honganji, Nagashima, and Hojujiden, all of which have been destroyed. I don't think they belong in the regular categories, such as Category:Buddhist temples, as that is not a historical category and implies, to my mind at least, that the buildings contained within it are still standing. Any thoughts? LordAmeth 17:51, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Two thoughts:

1. make destroyed or unremaining so-and-so buildings like "destroyed Buddhist builings", "destroyed Japanese castles".
2. make "destroyed buildings" category and put destroyed ones into at least two categoreis like Jurakudai to "Palaces" & "Destroyed buildings" .

--Aphaea* 21:48, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your suggestions. I have created categories for Category:Former Buddhist Temples of Japan and Category:Former Castles & Palaces of Japan, both under Category:Former buildings and structures of Japan. Please feel free to add more sub-categories, or other categories for Former buildings of other countries. LordAmeth 22:53, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

You're welcome. Your structure seems fine and reasonable to me. I hope others agree on it. Happy Editing. ;-) --Aphaea* 23:51, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Japanese clans

I have noticed that articles for Japanese noble families (samurai clans) are not standard in their naming. Some, like Minamoto, Taira, Soga, and Nitta are titled using just the family name. Some, like Kujo family, Nijo family, and Ichijo family have 'family' in the title, and some, such as Miura clan, Chiba clan, and Hatakeyama clan have 'clan' in the title. I would not be surprised if there were some out there titled 'name (clan)' or 'name (Japanese clan)'. Any thoughts on what the standard should be? Any volunteers to do the title changes (page moves)? Thanks. LordAmeth 20:00, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Oops there seems to be confusions but I'm afraid you are confused with clan and family.

For samurai clans, it should be classfied as belows:

• Clan - Munamoto, Taira
• Family - Nittta (it is a family belonging to Minamoto clan), Soga[?, iirc Fujiwara]

Fujiwara clan and families were labelled once "family" but I moved Fujiwara family to Fujiwara clan. Kujo, Nijo, Ichijo are branches of this clan, and in Japanese they are never called as "shi"(clan), so I think there is no problem around them.

Samurai clans would be problematic, because the naming convention in Japanese isn't logical: and in the Edo period, family (-ke) was used to designate each daimyo (and their han), not a group in blood under the same myoji, like kuge, so I think it is better to call all those "clans" or here we go logical and call Minamoto clan, Nitta (and so claimed their blanch Tokugawa) families.

Perhaps it is good to have Names in Japan or some alike. Any opinion? --Aphaea* 21:21, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

ORANGE RANGE

I noticed today that the article for Jpop band Orange Range was a stub, so I went to add to it, translating from the Japanese Wikipedia. Essentially, I added little more than a list of the band members and their albums, but it being a band, I'm not really sure what else there is to say.

Anyway, getting to the point. The article seemed to indicate that the band was accused of plagiarism in an interview a few years back. I may be reading/translating this wrong, of course, but there's a list of bands and songs at the bottom of the Japanese article that seems to be a list of which Orange Range songs are copied (plagiarized) from which other songs. I went and read the interview, and there really doesn't seem to be anything criminal or scandalous in it. The closest it comes to accusing the band of plagiarism is a section where the guitarist talks about imitating (drawing from) many styles of music.

Could someone look at this, and help me figure out what the story is, whether or not they're being accused of plagiarism, whether or not it's a big deal, etc. Thanks. LordAmeth 22:59, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Done. I think some of the plagarism accusations are plain silly. However, it seems that there definetely were some issues. Atsi Otani 05:52, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

One the subject of Orange Range and plagiarism, feel free to check this flash movie which pretty-much outlines the issue with that. It's Japanese, but I'm sure you can figure out what the point of it is. It basically plays Orange Range clips followed by songs by other artists from which Orange Range seems to have lifted the melody, rhythm, etc.

--Joshua Maciel 00:53, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Japanese etiquette

Is there a related article (I've searched by couldn't find one) and if not do people think one is needed? Exploding Boy 22:08, May 8, 2005 (UTC)

Japanese etiquette is clearly different enough from other countries that it warrants having its own article.--DannyWilde 01:19, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Transliteration Kanmon Straits

I think in Hepburn style it should be "Kammon Straits". Am I wrong or it is better to rename it? --Aphaea* 05:41, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

You're right. The Hepburn transliteration is "Kammon." However, Wikipedia does not use Hepburn; it uses a modified system with "nm" instead of "mm." There are a couple of exceptions in the policy. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles)#Romanization. Fg2 07:56, May 9, 2005 (UTC) ... so, to change it would be wrong according to Wikipedia policy. Fg2 07:57, May 9, 2005 (UTC)

Where to link ja:クルミ

Hi all - what English page should ja:クルミ be linked to?
Currently it is at Walnut (the genus Juglans), but would it be better placed at Persian Walnut (Juglans regia; the photo on the page is of this species), or perhaps at Japanese Walnut (Juglans ailantifolia, the species of walnut native in Japan)? Unfortunately I can't read Japanese, so I don't know whether the Japanese page describes the genus as a whole, or just one species. - Thanks, MPF 12:48, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

I don't read Japanese either, but the article is marked as a stub, and seems to be describing the genus as a whole. I think Walnut is correct. BTW - google (and perhaps others) will happily translate. Translation for this page is available from google here. -- Rick Block 14:06, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Thanks; the article as translated by google seems a little confused, with most of it about Persian Walnut (wrongly cited as 'English' Walnut, a US-derived inaccuracy), but the reference to walnuts in Nagano will probably refer to Japanese Walnut. Anyone want to tidy it up? - MPF 14:30, 19 May 2005 (UTC) . . . just added a Japanese Walnut photo to the page, I hope google translated the name correctly! ( 日本のクルミ ) - MPF 14:48, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

WP:JCOTW Tie break

Japanese collaboration of the week is currently in Tie break. Osaka Dome and Shinshukyo. Tie break vote closes tomorrow. Your vote will be welcome! --Larus.r 04:23, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

move Shouwa to Showa

I suspect uncontroversial - a user has requested the disambiguation page Shouwa be moved to Showa. Seems like folks from this board might want to comment on this proposed move, see Talk:Shouwa. -- Rick Block 14:37, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

• Doesn't MoS for Japan-related articles specify no long vowels in article titles? That makes it seem even less controversial. Fg2 20:48, May 23, 2005 (UTC)
  • Move has been executed. I rearranged the Showa disambiguation page slightly for readability. JeroenHoek 12:07, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Photo galleries in articles?

Some articles have lots of photos --- Tokyo comes to mind. In addition to lots of photos, it has lots of supporting text. But some other articles have more photo than text --- Nikko is an example. I wonder if we should use photo galleries to organize the pictures? I tried an example in Meiji Shrine and am interested in opinions. Fg2 10:38, May 24, 2005 (UTC)

As long as an article has enough supporting text (like Tokyo does), I'd leave it how it is. But like your idea. Next time I do something that involves a lot of pics, I'll use the gallery option, and see how it looks... LordAmeth 11:43, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Meiji Shrine looks good with the gallery. Doing the same for Nikko would be fine. Anything that makes the article look better is welcome. If there are enough images, a gallery would be especially useful for articles like "Flags of Japanese prefectures" or "Endangered species in Japan." Otherwise, I would prefer seeing the images inline with the supporting text. We should keep in mind though, that for most articles, the text should be the main and dominant content, not photos. The photos should complement the text, not vice versa (unless it's a travel wiki). Photojpn.org 03:28, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

Japanese Map Licensing

Hi, I've been having some trouble determining the licensing/legal status of the maps found on the municipality pages on the Japanese Wikipedia and could really use some help. Most of the maps I've seen are badly tagged, with no licensing info. According to this discussion, the maps are derived from a large original, which apparently covers Japan in its entireity. The original may be Japan_map.png, which says it's copyrighted by the Japanese Geological Survey Institute (also has various links to explanations of the image's origins). A user (Koba-chan) that's been providing many maps has explained the licensing/legal status of the maps, but I have trouble following the logic. The way I understand it: 1. The Japanese Geological Survey Institute gives Koba-chan permission to use images of "shapes that look like maps," which are derived from the Japanese GSI's data, under the "for education" clause in the School Education Law. 2. Koba-chan uploads the images to the Japanese Wikipedia. Although it appears to be in conflict with a rule that says "viewing images is permissible, but reuse is not permissible" (sorry, I can't figure out where this rule comes from), Koba-chan explains it's alright, because he has been given permission to use the maps. 3. Lots of users edit and create derivative works from the maps (coloring, write in new municipality borders, cut/splice to use in municipality/prefecture pages, etc).

What I would like to know is:

1. Can these maps be used on the Wikipedia?
2. If the maps can be used, how should the maps be tagged? Fair use? GFDL? As far as I know, Japanese copyright law does not have anything called fair use, although it contains similar concepts.
3. If the maps cannot be used, could anybody give me any advice on how to create my own maps?

Thanks, Atsi Otani 03:33, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

I cannot answer questions about Japanese Wikipedia since they have different copyright issues. You'll have to go back to them for clarification. But for question No. 3, you can make maps at this Web site:

http://aoki2.si.gunma-u.ac.jp/map/map.html

He says anyone can use his maps for anything. The person who made the original prefecture maps on the English Wikipedia used this site. The only problem is that the Okinawan islands, Amami islands, Ogasawaras, and Northern Territories are not included. (That's why I made a different map for those prefectures.) When you make a map using coloring, etc., then it's your map so you can upload it to Wikipedia under any license you want. Photojpn.org 02:44, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

Photojpn - Thank you!! The alternative you suggested is a relatively painless, and will really help if things don't work out. I've been researching Japanese copyright law and have asked a question at the ja.wikipedia - this has made me realize that the answer to my questions are going to be complicated. The main question will probably boil down to: "does the Japanese Geographical Survey Institute retain copyrights for the map images on the ja.wikipedia?" If the answer to this question is no, the maps can be licensed in a free form - the only person that can answer this question is the person who originally created the master map images from an GSI-copyrighted original. I'll be contacting him, once I figure out what I need to ask. I'll try to report the results here, because they may be useful to other people that are editing Japanese municipalities. Atsi Otani 14:37, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

Help! Late Hojo clan

Someone created an article, probably patent nonsense, with the title Late Hojo clan. It's the only contribution by an IP user, and has never been edited since its creation ten days ago. I'll take a first swipe at a real article; can anyone help? Fg2 05:24, May 26, 2005 (UTC)

It's actually a valid historical clan, and an important distinction from the earlier Hojo clan. When Ise Shinkuro began to conquer lands and build up his power in the 15th century, he wanted his lineage to have a more illustrious name, and chose Hojo, after the line of regents of the Kamakura shogunate. The Late Hojo, sometimes known as the Odawara Hojo after their home castle of Odawara, were not related to the earlier Hojo clan.

I would not oppose a merge if it were suggested, but I think it is alright as is. I shall make a note for myself to expand upon this page. LordAmeth 20:15, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

another uncontroversial move

user:William McDuff has requested Matsuyama, Miyagi (Shida) be moved to Matsuyama, Miyagi (which is currently a redirect to Matsuyama, Ehime). Please comment at Talk:Matsuyama, Miyagi (Shida). -- Rick Block 13:51, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

The Shōwa era

Some anonymous editor changed the dates on the Showa redirect page for the 正和 era, thinking it meant 昭和 period. I am changing it back to the proper dates, but I got a little confused along the way. Showa (era) says it ran from 1311 to 1312, but the following era Bumpo, starts in 1317. A quick Google leads me to lists that show 正和 as a period starting in 1312 and running into 1317. Checking the Wikipedia listed era's, I found ōchō and shōwa to be shifted one timeperiod, so I corrected it.

At least, I think I corrected it. Could someone confirm my edits are correct? I have only used these lists I ran into through Google, but they could be using the same erronous source for all I know:

• [1]
• [2]
• [3]

It seems to be correct now though. JeroenHoek 21:29, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your correction, Showa (in Kamakura period) started exactly in 1312 and ran into 1317. --Larus.r 02:40, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Kanto

Hi, I've put a suggestion on Talk:Kanto that I'd appreciate comments on. Apologies if this isn't the right place to post this -- Kjlewis 11:34, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I guess you came to the right place ;-)

WP:JCOTW tie break again

Japanese collaboration of the week is currently in a tie break again. Onmyodo and Aomori, Aomori. Tie break vote closes tomorrow, 0:00 (UTC). Your vote will be welcome! ----Larus.r 00:46, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Tainted blood scandal

I've been searching for an article on this but haven't been able to find one. If there's not one, there should be. What do people think it should be called? I'm leaning towards "Tainted blood scandal in Japan" or "Japan's tainted blood scandal." Any other suggestions? Exploding Boy 01:05, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)

What is the tainted blood scandal? (All I can think of is the Minamata disease) JeroenHoek 11:23, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Although I'm not entirely sure of myself, I can think of two possibilities of what you're talking about. One involved HIV-tainted blood products, another one was about hepatitis C-tainted blood products. Again, I'm not sure of my memory. That said, you might want to throw in the name of the disease to clarify things. Atsi Otani 06:29, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I am sure that he Exploding Boy is refering to what is called in Japan "yakugai-eizu". I have never heard of the other one that you Otani pointed out. I have googled a bit, but I couldn't find any satisfactory name. According to [4], candidates are HIV-tainted-blood scandal, tainted blood scandal. SInce in wikipedia article titles don't need to be descriptive, we don't have to put "Japan" in the title. I am going to write very very short stub and redirects to sort out title issues. Feel free to rename them as needed. -- Taku 22:32, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)

While it doesn't have to have "Japan" in the title, that may serve to distinguish that incident from, for example, a similar one involving the Canadian Red Cross. [5] [6]. Or maybe we just need one article that addresses all HIV-tainted blood scandals. The end of his article [7] has a list of such happenings in a dozen countries --Tabor 00:53, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think it is better to start a general article rather than one about a specific event. Once the article gets longer, it can be splited it into more articles. -- Taku 02:58, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I think I'm going to take out the second "-" in the first title, but it's a good start. We may wish to add (Japan), since I'm sure there've been/will be others. Exploding Boy 00:42, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

Fine. -- Taku

delete Japanese terms category?

There's an active vote on a proposal to delete category:Japanese terms (and the similar category for Cantonese terms) at Wikipedia:Categories for deletion. Just an FYI. -- Rick Block (talk) 18:26, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)

English name for 鳳珠郡

Fugeshi and Suzu Districts in Ishikawa Prefecture apparently merged on 1 March 2005 forming 鳳珠郡. Can someone please let me know the proper name in English for the new district? Thanks. -- Rick Block (talk) 03:15, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)

And can someone please verify that 能登町 is "Noboru"? Thanks. -- Rick Block (talk) 03:23, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)

If you are refering 能登町 of Ishikawa pref., it's "Noto-chô". --Ypacaraí 03:47, 2005 Jun 14 (UTC)

Yes, from Ishikawa. But wasn't 能都町 also Noto-cho? And also please verify that 宝達志水町 is Hodatsushimizu and 中能登町 is Nakanoto? Thanks (sorry I'm so ignorant). -- Rick Block (talk) 03:55, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)

According to the ja.Wikipedia articles, 鳳珠郡: Hōsu-gun (ほうす), 能登町: Noto-cho (のと), 能都町: Noto-machi (のと), 宝達清水町: Hōdatsushimizu-cho (ほうだつしみず), 中能登町: Nakanoto-machi (なかのと). Atsi Otani 05:59, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Domo! -- Rick Block (talk) 13:30, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)

link spam?

The anon IP 220.58.224.240 (talk · contribs) has recently added a bunch of links to various Japanese-related articles. I've looked at several of them and although they are not for a commercial website, most of the linked webpages seem to be of fairly low usefulness and not necessarily that closely related to the article that it was linked from (for example, a link an essay of dining al fresco in Japan added to the Cuisine of Japan article. Could someone else please take a look and offer a second opinion before I go and delete all of this anon editor's recent additions. BlankVerse ∅ 05:17, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I removed some of the obvious ones. Frankly, any addition by an anonymous IP address doesn't require a debate (IMHO). Davejenk1ns 05:53, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I often see good article edits by anons, but the percentage of garbage that gets added to the External link sections by anons is very high. There's one person who keeps adding the same very poor personal name definition website to ALL of the Wikipedia articles on names, including where the link definately doesn't belong. And then the amount of true commercial link spam seems on the increase lately as well. I was just wondering if I was overreacting to this group of links. BlankVerse ∅ 08:51, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Italics?

Is there a standard for italicizing foreign words? For that matter, is there any kind of standard for capitalizing Japanese words (or any other language that doesn't itself involve capitalization)?

For the most part, I have been italicizing less common words (daidairi, horō, honmaru), and leaving alone (un-italicized) more common words like samurai, ninja, katana. But there are some in-between words, like Shogun, daimyō, harakiri, sakura, which I'm not sure what to do with.

What do you think? Thanks for any suggestions you might offer... LordAmeth 15:09, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'm in favor of italicizing Japanese words that are not in the English language. The Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles) specifies treating as English words that have become part of the language (e.g. Tokyo, Fuji) so I agree with you that they should not be italicized in English. I capitalize the first letter of place names in English, and if they're common in English I write them without macrons but I like your suggestion to write the Japanese in lowercase italics (e.g. Hokkaido (北海道 hokkaidō)) and think I've done so a couple of times. I haven't checked Merriam-Webster or OED but I'd bet "shogun" is in it (I'd lowercase it unless it's the title of an individual, e.g. Shogun Tokugawa Iemitsu, but the Tokugawa shoguns). I would not use a macron over the first vowel. "Daimyo" I've looked up and found, and because it's in authoritative English dictionaries I've removed macrons from it. (Some of them I'd put in myself...) "Harakiri" is probably in the dictionaries. I don't know about "sakura" --- but it's worth a look. "Ninja" has, I guess, become common in pop culture. Dictionaries are slow to pick up on that, but it seems hard to deny that it's part of English, at least for a generation or two to come. I would definitely not capitalize them. I've changed "Noh" to "noh" (only to see it changed back), for example; I think it deserves to be capitalized as much as "Theatre" or "Cinema" (that is, not at all unless it's at the beginning of a sentence). One of my pet peeves is writing surnames in all caps. If there are any Japanese who don't recognize that "Suzuki" is the surname and "Taro" the given name, it might serve them well, but the system of writing surnames in all capitals is not part of the English language. Likewise, I recommend not capitalizing on'yomi. Of course, about half the battles wind up going against me so we'll see what others have to say! Fg2 11:09, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

WP:VFD Japanese fascism

Japanese fascism is listed on VfD, Well I gave a look to this article ... if it survives or not, it need to cleanup (e.g. I can't figure why this editor listed "Bushi" or "Samurai" on the section "Thinkers & policy"). Also your vote and opinion will be helpful. --Aphaea* 04:20, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I wish to make some comment on articles like this one, (which is getting more and more problematic. Is that because of Koizumi's thoughtless comments and acts?) Obviously, the question is not simply whether those have to be deleted. There have long been a significant number of this kind. (See a very good list User:Charles_Matthews/Imperial_Japan). The best way to tackle this kind of problem (yes this is a big problem!, if you haven't noticed) is to write decent articles about controversial topics in the first place. In the above case, if there were a good enough article, there would have been no way for anyone to write such a patent nonsense. So I suggest any of you who is able and willing not waste your time in dealing with POV-minded people, but simply go ahead writing articles about modern Japan as quality and many as you can. I cannot stress more that the best defence is decency and accuracy, and with them no crap may creep into wikipedia. I know that, as I mainly study mathematics and computer science, I am really not good at writing history articles. But I will try, and I would like to beg, encourage and support you too to look into this matter. (Is this what the Japanese calls agibira?) -- Taku 06:42, Jun 18, 2005 (UTC)

NOTICE OF VOTE ON NAME - Tsushima Island/Islands or '???'

An appeal for immediate help!

There has been a large edit war going on around the article currently titled Tsushima Islands ( Talkpage (Very Long)) And help is needed to put out the flames. I'm trying to mediate a vote and stabilize the article, as I have no stake in the matter living outside Boston, but I seem to have accidently triggered the latest series of edits (70+ in just three days) with an innocent edit sans looking at the talk before hand.

• The issue called on the table is simply whether the article should be 'Tsushima', 'Tsushima Islands', or 'Tsushima Island', with the first listed being a compromise suggested early in the ongoing 'Comments On the Move Proposal' (Section Heading).
• I think the matter is starting to resolve itself, but there are at least two and perhaps three juveniles that would be benifit (i.e. — MAY Learn something about proper research and quotations with references!) by a strong vote one way or the other... and heck — it's Japans' Island, of which I am only a recent student.
• English language references are totally conflicted on the matter as you can see in the discussion yourself.
• The english grammer in the article can not be settled until the plural/singular nature can be stabilized, though the recent input by your fellow multi-ligual 'Atsi Otani', especially two pictures, and very recent refinding of the text that I innocently transformed into blatant warfare in it's proper context of a professor making a tounge in cheek joke (which sentence was copied directly into the text sans quotes by one of the juveniles) has broken the log jam over the actual physical nature of the Isle proper.

(One interpretation implied the island had been sundered by a 2km wide channel, THAT was a misinterpretation/misreading of what which is to later evidence, in reality just a canal.) (But the Fur Flew Far Fast and Furiously for a while!)

• Please take some minutes to cast your vote, culturally it's your turf, if only intellectually! These links should take you directly to the germane sections:
  • Discussion on Move (Multi-part)
  • (The Actual Vote section )
  • The Compromise Vote Discussion Section
  • The Compromise Vote Section

Thanks in advance for putting on a Fireman's Hat for this matter, and perhaps any further involvement you may care to volunteer to keep the fire out! If you Vote by Midnight 22 June (UTC) that should be in time. [[User:Fabartus|FrankB || TalktoMe]] 20:29, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

---

Voting has begun

Voting on the issue of moving the article Tsushima Islands to Tsushima Island or Tsushima has begun. The discussion and voting are at Talk:Tsushima Islands. Fg2 July 5, 2005 11:28 (UTC)

Fumimaro Konoe

Noticed a small discrepancy in the article on Fumimaro Konoe, prime minister of Japan in the 1937-1941 period. The article and this list show only two terms as prime minister, but according to what I've read (Robert J.C. Butow's Tojo and the coming of war and the syllabus for a modern Japanese history class), he succeeded himself the third time (july 18th, 1941) with the most important difference in the cabinet lineup being the removal of foreign minister Matsuoka.

Are the Wikipedia articles wrong, or isn't his 3d term considered to be a term at all? I'll change the articles if no one finds fault with my findings. JeroenHoek 20:33, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

According to [8] (Japanese government page), Konoe served three terms. So I think you are right. I wonder what information the article was written based on. -- Taku 23:06, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

I'm redoing that list now. There are a lot of errors in that list for some reason or another. :(

The official government list above seems correct as far as I can tell from the few dates I found, so I'm using that. JeroenHoek 13:54, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Nice work! -- Taku 00:24, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

My pleasure. JeroenHoek 11:43, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've added the interim prime ministers from the Japanese Wikipedia as well, assuming that list is correct. The only thing bothering me now is the lack of macrons on the names of the prime ministers. Should these be added? A name like Tōjō is known as Tojo mostly in English, just like Tokyo and Osaka, but I don't think this is the case for all names in the list. Any opinions? JeroenHoek 11:43, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

My opinion is no macrons for prime ministers of Japan. In the US, newspapers, news magazines and other print media likely to discuss foreign leaders do not typically put macrons over names of Prime Ministers, every one of whom I suppose to have been in the press. So at least in the US the most widely known form of the name has no macrons. In the first line of the article on each individual, it's appropriate to write the Japanese pronunciation in parentheses, like this: "Junichiro Koizumi (小泉 純一郎: koizumi jun'ichirō) is the Prime Minister of Japan." However, in my opinion, the macron is not part of the name in English, but is a mark that indicates the pronunciation in Japanese. Fg2 01:15, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC)

Let me add that this is a discussion of style, and should be decided at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles), not at the notice board. Fg2 01:17, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC)

Proposed merger of Tsushima pages

As part of the ongoing edit war in the Tsushima Islands article, someone has proposed merging articles such as Tsushima, Nagasaki, Tsushima Province and Tsushima Islands. If you have an opinion about whether articles should be separate or together, and which information belongs in which article, I encourage you to voice your opinions at the bottom of the discussion page. Fg2 01:05, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC)

Sorry for interrupting here - in relation to the Tsushima Islands article, I would like to (again) ask interested editors to vote on the move from Tsushima Islands to Tsushima Island, which has not achieved a consensus. You can vote here. I have voted support under the following reasoning (copied from the vote page).

• Japanese people, including locals generally call Tsushima an island. There are other similar examples elsewhere in the world. Pender Island is divided into North Pender Island and South Pender Island by a canal, but is often called an island (some people call it the Pender Islands or the Penders). Ono Island, Alabama is divided into several bodies of land by canals, but always seems to be called Ono Island. Merritt Island, Florida is also called an island despite it is technically not an island. Pine Island (Lee County, Florida) also has many canals towards the south that appear to separate the land into several bodies of land.

It's pretty obvious that I would appreciate support votes, but please vote what you feel. Thank you. 61.44.80.193 30 June 2005 16:21 (UTC)