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Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates/Tibesti Mountains/archive2

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Latest comment: 3 years ago by Ian Rose in topic Images added since image review

Resolved comments by Chipmunkdavis edit

  • The use of "extension into" in the opening sentence feels like unnecessarily emphasising political borders. Something like "portion located within" would make it sound less like the range is sneaking into Libya.
  • "After the typically violent rains, these slopes form ephemeral streams and flora." Undecided if the "the" is needed, and a tweak needed as the slopes do not "form" flora.
  • "large mammals present in the ecoregion are the", if kept, should probably change from "are the" to "include the", as several mammals mentioned later are also reasonably large. However, it is unclear why these four species are singled out to be separated from the rest of the text. It seems based on the kbinirsnb.be source, but that source doesn't provide an explanation.
  • "Reptile and amphibian fauna is poor" feels a bit too close to the source. The gecko sentence should be shifted to the end of the paragraph, as they are also lizards.

CMD (talk) 10:42, 17 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

  • "The principal settlements in the Tibesti are Bardaï, Aouzou and Zouar, respectively located in the center, north and west of the range". Those location descriptions don't seem to match the map, and I can't find them in the source. Nor do I see how the source supports those being the principle settlements. I can't find where the next sentence on Bardai is supported in the source either.
  • Is the text starting "It is connected to Zouar" sourced mainly to the 1912-1917 map? I also don't see how the Getty Doby 2007, p. 11. source relates to the text at all.
  • Fixed. It's the map in Getty Dobby. The page numbers seem a bit off towards the start of the document so I provided a ref location of "map". The old map mainly supports the claim that the track crosses the Tarso Toussidé plateau, which I figure hasn't moved in the interceding years. Brycehughes (talk) 04:36, 22 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • "however, efforts toward executive cooperation and war alliances are usually destined for failure". Not sure what this is trying to say.
  • @Chipmunkdavis: Would "however, efforts toward executive cooperation and war alliances between clans are usually destined for failure" make more sense? Or which part is confusing? Brycehughes (talk) 05:58, 22 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • I'm afraid I can't say which part exactly is confusing, as I'm unsure what it's trying to say. Perhaps it's the present tense that is confusing me? CMD (talk) 10:05, 22 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • @Chipmunkdavis: So in full it reads, "The Derdé resides in Zouar and aims to impose religious and judicial authority over the Tibesti population; however, efforts toward executive cooperation and war alliances are usually destined for failure." What I'm trying to say is, the Derdé has some success with authority over religious and judicial matters among the populace/clans, but general fails miserably on more administrative (executive) matters and conflict matters. Does that make any sense? Brycehughes (talk) 11:26, 22 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • The current text does not convey your explanation for me. "Aims" suggests the Derdé only wants religious and judicial authority, and might not even achieve that, whereas your explanation suggests it does achieve these to some extent and even aims for more. I'm also unsure if executive cooperation and war alliances work as synonyms for your explanation either. This is the first point that the Derdé is mentioned in the text, so for a reader going top to bottom there will be no reference regarding eg. the war with the Ottomans to even suggest that the Derdé has military power. Perhaps it could be worded to provide a bit more background? CMD (talk) 13:51, 22 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • Fixed. I ended up removing it during a re-write. Brycehughes (talk) 04:19, 23 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • "...the Aouzou Strip, a narrow 114,000..." Is 60 miles narrow?
  • "MDJT had established a weak government in the Tibesti region, nominally independent from that of Chad". While the source does use "nominally", I suggest changing this from "nominally independent" to something such as "functioning independently". This change would make it clear the independence was to do with function rather than status, and the capacity of the rebel government is already covered by the "weak" adjective.
  • Thanks. Changed to "functionally independent". I was iffy about that as well when writing it. It's almost as if I was trying to say "nominally functionally independent". Brycehughes (talk) 06:08, 22 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • Landmines appear at the end of two consecutive subsections. Suggest merging the first sentence with the one in the subsequent subsection.
  • "for the production of dates" can probably be removed as redundant to the text on either side of it.
  • "More recent art includes ostriches and antelopes, which have an exceptional presence on the edge of the range, as well as gazelles and sheep, which are more common." Is "exceptional" meant to mean rare? If so I suggest changing it, as it feels ambiguous.
  • Done. I rephrased it, because I don't think it should get into the presence of animals outside of the more scientific fauna section. Brycehughes (talk) 06:58, 22 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • "The Tibesti art is unique in the Sahara because of the absence of inscriptions, the relative lack of chariots, and the low representation of camels and horses until comparatively recently.[167] The art has remained important to the Toubou; around 1200 AD, a man named Yerbou engraved a palm leaf into rock, symbolizing his love for a married woman.[169]" Regarding the second sentence, how is the name known if not for an inscription? The second sentence is also odd in portraying an event in 1200AD as an example of the continuing importance of art to the people today.
  • Removed. I have no idea how the source knows that. It just claims his name is Yerbou (p. 14). Anyway I removed it because, although nice and romantic, it is a bit odd without further details, which I don't have and can't find. Brycehughes (talk) 07:13, 22 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • Not sure "Culture" is the right name for the final section, given its content. Perhaps "Art and artistic references", or just "Art"?
  • @Chipmunkdavis: "Art" doesn't seem to capture the spirit of the section and "Art and artistic references" seems a bit overwrought. We have in there historical artwork (parietal art) in the Tibesti produced by locals, contemporary art produced by non-locals—one work located in the Tibesti and one about the Tibesti—and also literature produced outside the Tibesti about the Tibesti. Given a dictionary definition of culture as "the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively", I feel like it probably sufficiently captures the somewhat broad nature of the section, no? Brycehughes (talk) 07:43, 22 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • For me the issue is that the section is narrowly focused on the "arts", ignoring the "other manifestations" part of that definition. Other parts of culture are dealt with in the Population section. CMD (talk) 10:05, 22 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • I'd argue that the customs of the Toubou people fall under a different definition of culture. That is, there is a brief overview of some Toubou customs and institutions (i.e. their culture) in the Population section, but anything more detailed would belong in the Toubou people article, while this top-level section relates to culture in terms of the physical mountain range, not its people, and that is the thread that ties all the items there together. Brycehughes (talk) 11:35, 22 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • There are some gotchas in that argument though. This is a tough question. Let me give it a think for a bit. Brycehughes (talk) 11:41, 22 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • Actually that didn't take much of a think. Should be fixed now. Let me know if you object. Brycehughes (talk) 11:50, 22 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

Overall a very interesting article. CMD (talk) 15:11, 21 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for your work on this! Brycehughes (talk) 07:49, 22 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

Image review edit

  • Looks legit to me. (t · c) buidhe 03:34, 17 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • File:Toubou man traveling.jpg I am a bit skeptical that the uploader has the rights to this image since based on reverse image search it in appears to have been on the web[2] prior to its upload to Commons.
  • The CC BY-SA 4.0 license printed on that web image appears to be the same user that uploaded it to commons, ToubouGa. Brycehughes (talk) 09:20, 15 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • Removed per above. Brycehughes (talk) 02:02, 17 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • File:Toubou map.svg needs to cite reliable source for the information (tribal distribution) displayed on the map.
  • I have this (see page 19) which is quite close but not precisely the same shape. Do you think it would suffice as a source for the existing? Brycehughes (talk) 10:36, 15 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • I went ahead and added it. I think it's close enough and the author seems reliable. Brycehughes (talk) 08:59, 16 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • Added RS. Map wasn't simplified in the sense that it was inaccurate, rather I think I was trying to say that the map doesn't have much detail (probably should have said "simple"). Anyway, I removed "simplified". Brycehughes (talk) 09:42, 15 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • I'm seeing a great many images from Nasa World visualization software, which doesn't seem ideal but maybe that's what there is.
  • More because you want a variety of perspectives, including photographs from ground or aerial views. (t · c) buidhe 09:31, 15 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • Fair enough. I'll see what I can do. But I can't emphasize enough how isolated (i.e. rarely photographed) these mountains are.
  • Not having any luck. I think we're probably stuck with these (at least until the Tibesti becomes any sort of tourist destination). Brycehughes (talk) 22:59, 15 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

Brycehughes (talk) 09:46, 15 February 2021 (UTC) (t · c) buidhe 08:36, 15 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

  • Done. It's exaggerated relief too. I hate that image. Brycehughes (talk) 00:45, 19 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
Other comments
  • The Geology section has sandwiched images contrary to MOS:IMAGELOC and would benefit from subsectioning
  • The images in "Population" also sandwich
  • Flora and fauna section has too many long lists of species names, such as the paragraph on birds which is almost entirely taken up by an extremely long sentence just listing birds. These are not helpful and should be removed.
  • Cleaned it up. Let me know if it needs more work. Brycehughes (talk) 04:32, 16 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

(t · c) buidhe 08:36, 15 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

Thanks again. Brycehughes (talk) 07:45, 22 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

Notes edit

Latest comment: 3 years ago2 comments1 person in discussion

Herodotus and the identity of the Toubou edit

From Chapelle 1982, pp. 35–36:

Hérodote décrit les oasis d'Ammon et d'Aoudjila, et ensuite celles du Fezzan :

A partir d'Augila (Aoudjila se trouve au sud du golfe de Syrte et n'a pas changé de nom, il n'y a donc aucun doute sur son identification) à dix autres jours de route, sont un autre tertre de sel, de l'eau et quantité de palmiers portant des fruits [...]. En ce pays habitent des hommes nommés Garamantes, nation très nombreuse; sur le sel ils apportent de la terre, puis ils sèment [...]. Ces Garamantes font la chasse aux Éthiopiens Troglodytes sur des chars à quatre chevaux; car ces Éthiopiens Troglodytes sont les plus rapides à la course à pied de tous les hommes dont nous avons entendu parler. Ces Troglodytes se nourrissent de serpents, de lézards et d'autres reptiles; ils parlent une langue qui ne ressemble à nulle autre, mais au cri des chauves-souris.

Ce n'est pas sans quelque apparence de raison qu'on a l'approché ces Éthiopiens Troglodytes des Toubous. Où auraient vécu ces Troglodytes, donc habitants de grottes, sinon dans les massifs les plus proches du Fezzan, Tassili des Ajjers ou Tibesti? Les falaises des Ajjers et les grands ergs avoisinants ne se prêtent guère à la circulation de chars. Par contre les reg, grandes étendues plates au sol ferme, qui s'étendent entre le Fezzan et le Tibesti, auraient permis les poursuites en «chars à quatre chevaux» contre les incur- sions des Troglodytes venus piller les palmeraies. D'autre part on a pensé, à propos de cette langue qui ressemble «au cri des chauves-souris », au langage toubou.

Fearon, Laitin and Kasara 2006 wording review edit

Each entry's format is "Tibesti Mountains article wording" <--> "Source wording". For the four instances for which I changed the wording, the entry is preceded by *** and the changed wording is followed by "Changed to:".

  • "Chad gained independence from France in 1960" <--> "Chad’s risk of a civil war was at its height in the two years following independence in 1960; however, Chad was not a fully independent state in this period." (Fearon, Laitin and Kasara 2006, p. 3)
  • "and in 1965 the Chadian government led by François Tombalbaye imposed its administrative and judicial authority in the Tibesti." <--> "The Tombalbaye government also attempted to restrict the Toubou’s rights to travel freely on trade routes and reduced the judicial authority of the authority of the Derde" (Fearon, Laitin and Kasara 2006, p. 4); also supported by Collelo 1990: "In 1965 the Chadian government assumed direct authority over the Tibesti Mountains, sending a military garrison and administrators to Bardaï, the capital of Tibesti Subprefecture."
  • *** "Mere days after the withdrawal of French troops from the region, rebellion erupted in Bardaï, followed by numerous small-scale clashes over subsequent months and a more famous clash again in Bardaï in September." Changed to: "Mere days after the withdrawal of French troops from the region, rebellion erupted in Bardaï, followed by numerous small battles over subsequent months and a more significant battle in Bardaï in September." <--> "The first clash between southern troops and the Toubou occurred in January 1965 (taking place in Bardai, the administrative headquarters in of Tibetsi Prefecture) days after the withdrawal of the French. During this period small scale clashes occurred between Toubou and southern troops including another, more famous, clash at Bardai in September 1965." (Fearon, Laitin and Kasara 2006, p. 4)
  • "In response, the Tombalbaye government imposed travel and trade restrictions on the Toubou and voided the traditional power of the then Derdé, Oueddei Kichidemi." <--> "In response to this incident the sub-prefect, a Southerner, inflicted a number of extremely humiliating punishments on locals. The Tombalbaye government also attempted to restrict the Toubou’s rights to travel freely on trade routes and reduced the judicial authority of the authority of the Derde." (Fearon, Laitin and Kasara 2006, p. 4)
  • *** "These events were a direct trigger of the First Chadian Civil War, which lasted from 1965 to 1979." Changed to: "These events sparked the First Chadian Civil War, which lasted from 1965 to 1979." <--> "In 1965-66 three separate events triggered the onset of the civil war that gradually spread through North, East, and Central Chad." (Fearon, Laitin and Kasara 2006, p. 4) and "A series of peace talks took place in Nigeria in 1979 which eventually established the Gouvernment D’Union Nationale de Transition (GUNT)." (Fearon, Laitin and Kasara 2006, p. 12)
  • *** "The French therefore concentrated their intervention to the center and the east of the country, leaving the Tibesti region largely alone." Changed to "The French therefore focused their intervention on the center and east of the country, leaving the Tibesti region largely alone. <--> "Realizing this, the French concentrated on subduing only the center and the east during its 1968 military intervention." (Fearon, Laitin and Kasara 2006, p. 6)
  • "In 1969, Goukouni Oueddei, a Teda leader, and Hissène Habré, a Daza leader, emerged from the Tibesti to form the Second Liberation Army." <--> "Taher also recruited Goukouni and other Teda Toubou fighters from the Northwest near Tibetsi. These fighters became the Second Liberation Army in 1969. After Taher’s death in 1969 Goukouni became commander in chief and was soon joined by Hissen Habré – a Toubou from a different clan, the Daza." (Fearon, Laitin and Kasara 2006, p. 10)
  • "In April 1974, the Second Liberation Army captured Bardaï from the Chadian government and took hostage the French archeologist Françoise Claustre, German doctor Christophe Staewen and Marc Combe, an assistant to Claustre's husband, and held them in the mountains." <--> "In 1974 this group captured Bardai and gained valuable international publicity and arms by taking French hostages." (Fearon, Laitin and Kasara 2006, p. 10) Also supported by "Au moment de son rapt, Françoise Claustre n’est pas seule: le Dr Christophe Staewen, un médecin allemand et Marc Combe, un adjoint de Pierre Claustre, le mari de Françoise, sont aussi enlevés" (Arsenault 2006) and "Le 21 avril 1974, les combattants du CCFAN capturent trois européens dans la palmeraie de Bardaï : le médecin allemand Christophe Staewen et deux Français : le coopérant Marc Combe et l’archéologue Françoise Claustre" (Correau 2008).
  • *** "In 1976, the Second Liberation Army split into two factions, one affiliated with Libya and led by Goukouni, and the other led by Habré." Changed to: "In 1976, the rift between Goukouni and Habré spread to the Second Liberation Army, leaving one side commanded by Habré and the other commanded by Goukouni and supported by Libya." <--> "In 1976 the northern “Second Army” split into two factions – one affiliated with Libya, led by Goukouni and the other led by Hissen Habré." (Fearon, Laitin and Kasara 2006, p. 11)
  • "The Chadian government, led by Félix Malloum since Tombalbaye's overthrow in 1975, signed a peace agreement with Habré in 1978, although fighting with other rebel groups, many aligned with Libya, continued." <--> "Tombalbaye was overthrown in a junior officer’s coup in 1975" (Fearon, Laitin and Kasara 2006, p. 10); "The coup leaders established the Supreme Military Council headed by Gen. Félix Malloum" (Fearon, Laitin and Kasara 2006, p. 11); "Malloum reached a final peace agreement with Habré in 1978." (Fearon, Laitin and Kasara 2006, p. 11); and "The agreement never fully took effect because of mistrust on both sides. The uneasy peace turned into a violent struggle for N’Djamena in February 1979, sparked off by government attempts to suppress a riot by Northern students." (Fearon, Laitin and Kasara 2006, p. 11). Also supported by "The Chad Government furiously denounced Libya, both for its occupation of the Aozou strip and for its support of the rebels." (Higgins 1993, p. 18)

Brycehughes (talk) 23:20, 21 March 2021 (UTC)Reply

Catherin Baroin as subject-matter expert edit

A non-exhaustive sample of her work in Saharan/sub-Saharan anthropology/history, particularly regarding the Tibesti area. Aim is to show that, within this somewhat esoteric field, she is cited in works by high-quality, authoritative academics, journals and publishers, as a subject-matter expert. (Apologies that it's a bit messy.)

Brycehughes (talk) 03:06, 22 March 2021 (UTC)Reply

Paraphrase review edit

I've gone through the following sources manually and using online tools. This online tool was helpful when Earwig's failed me, because you can upload files to it. (It limits you to three comparisons per day but if you switch IPs...). Outside Fearon, Laitin and Kasara 2006, my review led to these changes. Here's a summary of the works reviewed:

  • Manually:
    • Fearon, Laitin and Kasara 2006
    • Nolutshungu 1995
    • Pollack 2002
    • Collelo 1990
  • Earwig:
    • Fearon, Laitin and Kasara 2006
    • Collelo 1990
    • "Tibesti-Jebel Uweinat montane xeric woodlands". World Wildlife Fund
  • Copyleaks.com
    • Hughes, Hughes and Bernacsek 1992
    • Permenter and Oppenheimer 2007
    • Tubiana and Gramizzi 2017
    • Higgins 1993
    • Ricciardi 1992

Source check for text-source integrity edit

Latest comment: 3 years ago12 comments2 people in discussion
  • Hughes, Hughes and Bernacsek 1992, p. 3
    • The source said "However, sometimes the front retires early, before reaching the Tibesti, resulting one or more years of drought." Was not able to verify in source
  • Apologies... it should have been pp. 2–3. The opening paragraph (p. 2) on the climate section says, "The monsoon front usually reaches 20°N and the Tibesti Mountains, but in some years may retreat southwards before it has reached this latitude." Then in the details on page 3, says "However, during this period some years were completely rainless while in others over 60 mm were recorded." Brycehughes (talk) 22:02, 27 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
    • "However, at elevations above 2,000 m (6,600 ft), average precipitation exceeds 100 to 150 mm (3.9 to 5.9 in) per year." This is not verified, the source actually says "Precipitation is greater at higher altitudes, e.g. at 2250 m at Trou-au-Natron (21°10'N/16°06'E), the mean annual receipt is 126 mm, and Emi Koussi probably receives even more than this, and snow is not an unusual phenomenon on the high peaks." Some tweaks to match the source: "Precipitation increases with altitude, for example at Trou-au-Natron (2250 m) it is 126 mm." (there may be other effects going on besides elevation such as rain shadow, so we should not make blanket statements that are not backed up in the source.)
    • "Bardaï, located 1,020 m (3,350 ft) above sea level, experiences average temperatures ranging between 4.6 and 23.7 °C (40.3 and 74.7 °F) in winter, between 14.4 and 34 °C (57.9 and 93.2 °F) in spring, and between 19.4 and 36.7 °C (66.9 and 98.1 °F) in summer" The source does not say this is true for "winter", "spring", or "summer", but specific months
  • Ugh. This was a hangover from the original French translation in 2013. Thanks for catching. Fixed. Brycehughes (talk) 22:16, 27 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • Higgins 1993, p. 18.
    • "In June 1977, Goukouni's forces attacked Chadian government strongholds in Bardaï and Zouar, killing 300 government troops. Bardaï surrendered to the rebels on July 4, while Zouar was evacuated" The source says no such thing, the only time Goukouni is mentioned is on page 13.
  • I suppose "Goukouni" was self-evident to me at the time. I added a source for Goukani (Arnold 2009, p. 286): "In July 1977, Goukani's forces captured the northern of Bardai; he then went on to defeat the government sources in a series of pitched battles". The details are supported in Higgins (1993, p. 18). Rephrased a bit while I was at it, although the details are the same. Brycehughes (talk) 23:05, 27 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
    • "The Chadian government, led by Félix Malloum since Tombalbaye's overthrow in 1975, signed a peace agreement with Habré in 1978, although fighting with other rebel groups, many aligned with Libya, continued" Likewise, Malloum is not even mentioned on that page
  • There is a another source cited here (Fearon, Laitin and Kasara 2006, pp. 10–11). It says, "Tombalbaye was overthrown in a junior officer’s coup in 1975. ... The coup leaders established the Supreme Military Council headed by Gen. Félix Malloum, who faced both insurgents and opposition from within the armed forces." Brycehughes (talk) 22:43, 27 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • Hughes, Hughes and Bernacsek 1992, pp. 18–19
    • " It is thought that water flows underground from the southern Tibesti mountains and then emerges in these springs" The source does not say this
  • On p. 19, "All these places are within 400 km of Emi Koussi, and it is believed that water from the southern Tibesti travels underground to these sites where it emerges at springs." Brycehughes (talk) 22:30, 27 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • On a side note, I rephrased it just to move it a bit farther away from the source. Brycehughes (talk) 22:34, 27 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • References section is not consistent about giving full name vs. initials
  • Sometimes the source material gives initials, sometimes it gives full names. My practice has always been to follow the source. If the source gives initials, do you suggest searching to try to figure out the full names? This could be error prone, I suppose. Also, it might not be possible, and therefore we'd be left with initials. Would you suggest changing all to initials? Brycehughes (talk) 22:38, 27 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
    Brycehughes, It's weird where you give initials and then link. My preference would be try to identify the author, if you are confident that you can, give the full name. (t · c) buidhe 02:32, 10 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

(t · c) buidhe 16:10, 27 March 2021 (UTC)Reply

Plan of action re source check edit

Latest comment: 3 years ago5 comments2 people in discussion

There was some unsourced garbage in the article that was uncovered by Esculenta, Chipmunkdavis, and Buidhe. All of this was from my original French translation in 2013. (The French article is, let's say, a tad romantic.) Further, all of the "garbage" was in the middle sections of the article.

Let me explain this a bit. When I initially started translating the article in 2013 I was highly motivated, and spent a lot of time verifying the sources in the beginning sections (up to about what is now the Geomorphology section). As my translation went on, I got tired/lazy, and just AGF'd most of the sources. So Climate section and below were not verified (or at least not well).

However, I never liked the second half of the translated article (History section down) and so I essentially entirely re-wrote that, with verifiable sources. This was also some time ago, and my problem back then was that I had a slight tendency to close paraphrase (my goal was simply article completeness, and I was lazy and wasn't seeking to get this featured), which I believe I have satisfactorily worked through with Nikkimaria.

In subsequent years I went through the article again and verified more sources. For example, I purchased Chapelle 1982 (in French) and verified everything in there. In summary, I am confident in the beginning sections of the article, and I am confident in the History-on-down sections of the article. However, annoyingly, I forgot about those middle sections.

Now, according with this story, all of the "garbage" uncovered by Esculenta, Chipmunkdavis and Buidhe was in these middle sections: Climate, Flora and Fauna, and Population. (Buidhe also pointed out an issue with one claim in the History section, in that the source was missing the name of a military leader, but I think there is an argument that this was self-evident in the context and a source for the name was easily found... it was a good catch regardless.) Moreover, all the garbage was from the original French translation, the diff of which from then to now can be seen here. Therefore, I think the best way for me to screen this article for any remaining "garbage" would be to focus on those claims that remain from the original French translation (i.e. the unchanged, white text in the diff). Once I have verified those, then perhaps the article could get another spot check. @Buidhe, do you think this is reasonable? Thanks, Brycehughes (talk) 23:22, 17 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

Ideally Buidhe would carry out a further spot check once you are happy that the source are bullet proof, but if there are any issues, give me a ping. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:49, 18 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
Ok, thanks. I personally don't mind who does the spot check; obviously Buidhe has put in more than their share of work on this article already. Anyway, will ping here when this is done. Brycehughes (talk) 22:54, 18 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gog the Mild and Buidhe: Ok, should be bullet proof now. Brycehughes (talk) 07:55, 21 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
...he said just seconds before being absolutely ethered by a cannon :) Brycehughes (talk) 09:24, 21 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

Sources added since source review edit

Latest comment: 3 years ago2 comments1 person in discussion

Hi Nikkimaria, I can't believe that this is still going, but I've added several new sources to the article in case you want to give them a look:

  • Google. "Google Earth" (Map). Google Earth. Retrieved April 19, 2021. {{cite map}}: |author= has generic name (help)
  • "Expeditions supported by the SFAR: Swiss Expedition in Tibesti – Central Sahara". Swiss Foundation for Alpine Research. Retrieved April 20, 2021.
  • Arnold, Guy (2009). The A to Z of Civil Wars in Africa. Scarecrow Press. ISBN 978-0-8108-7048-2.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: ref duplicates default (link)
  • Cox, A. D. M., ed. (1965). "Expeditions" (PDF). Alpine Journal. 70 (310–311): 120–132. Archived (PDF) from the original on July 15, 2020.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: ref duplicates default (link)
  • Davis, Whitney (1984). "Representation and Knowledge in the Prehistoric Rock Art of Africa". African Archaeological Review. 2: 7–35. JSTOR 25130436.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: ref duplicates default (link)
  • Ingram, Stuart (2001). "Africa: Travel and Adventure" (PDF). Summit. British Mountaineering Council. pp. 37–39. Archived (PDF) from the original on November 11, 2020.{{cite magazine}}: CS1 maint: ref duplicates default (link)
  • L., A. (1876). "Voyages du Dr Nachtigall" [Voyages of Dr. Nachtigal]. Le Globe. Revue genevoise de géographie (in French). 15: 167–178. Archived from the original on December 9, 2020.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: ref duplicates default (link)
  • Ministère des Affaires étrangères et du Développement international, direction des Archives (pôle géographique) (December 2016). Tchad [Chad] (Map) (in French). Ministry of Europe and Foreign Affairs. Archived from the original on April 21, 2021.
  • Musch, Tilman (2021). "Exploring Environments through Water: An Ethno-Hydrography of the Tibesti Mountains (Central Sahara)". Ethnobiology Letters. 12 (1): 1–11. doi:10.14237/ebl.12.1.2021.1709.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: ref duplicates default (link)
  • Roos, Christian; Knauf, Sascha; Chuma, Idrissa S.; Maille, Audrey; Callou, Cécile; Sabin, Richard; Portela Miguez, Roberto; Zinner, Dietmar (2021). "New mitogenomic lineages in Papio baboons and their phylogeographic implications". American Journal of Physical Anthropology. 174 (3): 407–417. doi:10.1002/ajpa.24186.
  • Pollack, Kenneth M. (2004). Arabs at War: Military Effectiveness, 1948-1991. Bison Books. ASIN B003NHSEK0.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: ref duplicates default (link)

Note the last one was already there, but I swapped out the bib entry for the Kindle version that I own. Thank you, Brycehughes (talk) 08:14, 21 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

Nevermind! Time to let this dog lie, I think. Brycehughes (talk) 08:58, 21 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

Images added since image review edit

Latest comment: 3 years ago9 comments3 people in discussion

Hi Buidhe, I've swapped out one image since the image review in case you want to take a look. The new one is File:Amazonite 1.jpg. Thank you, Brycehughes (talk) 08:18, 21 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

  • Image licensing looks good, sourcing not so much. (t · c) buidhe 08:20, 21 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • Ha alright. I suppose I'm now free to insert some cooler images in the article :P Brycehughes (talk) 09:00, 21 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

2nd source check edit

  • "Due to the unstable political situation, mountaineering in the Tibesti remains a challenging endeavor today." cited to a 2001 source. That's not good, see MOS:DATED.
  • I know, but good luck trying to find anything on the Tibesti Mountains mountaineering that's more recent. I've said it before: 20 years is nothing in Tibesti time. Brycehughes (talk) 08:48, 21 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • "Salt is mined today, and is an important source of income for the Toubou" Same vague timeframe, and the source actually says, "In addition, they make a living from date palm cultivation in the oases, the harvesting of wild plants, the salt trade". IMO this supports "source of income" but not "important source of income", since it is listed among other things it sounds more like a minor source of income.
  • Ditto re the timeframe. I'd say since it's listed, it is automatically an important source of income for the Toubou, as opposed all the unlisted sources of income. Brycehughes (talk) 08:48, 21 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • "In 1963, an expedition under the Italian Guido Monzino ascended a peak in the massif of the Aiguilles of Sissé which, despite rising only 800 ft (240 m) above ground level, proved "very difficult""[according to whom?] The source says "At the end of December, 1963, an expedition under Guido Monzino went to the western part of this range and climbed a peak in the massif of the Aiguilles de Sisse; although only rising less than 8oo ft. above ground level the ascent proved very difficult and required five hours." Looks like close paraphrasing to me.
  • According to the source, no? Hence the quote. I agree that the paraphrasing is too close. Though 99.9% of the article won't be. I guess I got unlucky with this mistake. Brycehughes (talk) 08:48, 21 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

Since I checked only these three cites and they all had issues, I'm not sure this FAC can go forward. (t · c) buidhe 08:14, 21 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

That's okay. I do appreciate all your work on this. I think that's by its nature perhaps the Tibesti Mountains isn't ever going to qualify for FAC (I think I read somewhere that some articles can't ever be featured due to their nature.) There just isn't enough out the re sources. However, like I've said, I am very happy with the status of the article, and I've enjoyed working on this FAC very much. Brycehughes (talk) 08:49, 21 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
Tks for all your efforts pursuing this, Bryce and Buidhe. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 09:47, 21 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
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