Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Battle of Masaka

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by Zawed (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 07:20, 21 March 2019 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Battle of Masaka edit

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Nominator(s): Indy beetle (talk)

The Battle of Masaka was a key event in the Uganda-Tanzania War of 1979. The fighting was relatively minor, but it led to the capture of the town by Tanzanian and Ugandan rebel forces, and demonstrated that Idi Amin's military situation was in trouble. Afterwards, the Tanzanian army leveled Masaka with explosives, forcing much of the local population to relocate and causing damage that the town did not fully recover from until this last decade. This article is one in a series of improvements being made on material related to the Uganda-Tanzania war, and has recently passed an extensive GA review by Peacemaker67. -Indy beetle (talk) 20:13, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Source review — pass edit

Sources look generally reliable. The article does rely somewhat on a memoir (Rwehururu) but not excessively and well within the bounds of WP:PRIMARY.
Source checks: checked Acheson-Brown, supports the content.
I'm not seeing any additional sources that look useful. b uidhe 01:24, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Image review - the one map is appropriately licensed, but are there any images available to illustrate the article? Nikkimaria (talk) 16:43, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Nikkimaria: From the GA review: "Photojournalist S. I. Mmbabdo included one picture of Masaka's leveled downtown in his compilation, The Tanzania-Uganda war in pictures. Unfortunately it is very much under copyright, and Commons has no photos of rebuilt Masaka. Heck, it seems all of the photos of the war are rights restricted." -Indy beetle (talk) 02:18, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from AustralianRupert edit

Support: G'day, Indy, nice work. I have a few minor comments/suggestions: AustralianRupert (talk) 02:48, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Masaka is overlinked in the lead
- Fixed.
there are no dab links (no action required)
in the lead, I suggest maybe splitting the second paragraph, as it seems quite long
- Done.
as per the above, I also suggest maybe splitting the first paragraph of the Prelude, as it also seems quite long
- Done.
link squadron, battalion, artillery battery, officer
- Done.
there is some mixture of English variation, for instance "defence" (British), "kilometer" (US) and "kilometre" (British)
- Should be all British now.
130mm (5.1 in): there should be a non breaking space between 130 and mm
- Done.
as divisional commander, should David Msuguri appear in the infobox?
- While its highly probable that Msuguri (on the instruction of President Nyerere) gave the orders for the TPDF to move in on Masaka, the sources do not state his actual role in the battle. The only Tanzanian commander named in the sources directly in the context of the fight for Masaka is John Butler Walden. Avirgan and Honey make reference to "field commanders" controlling the 201st and 208th Brigades, presumably Brigadiers Imran Kombe and Mwita Marwa (the units' respective commanders), but are not explicit.
  - No worries. If all three brigades were in action, the divisional commander and their staff would have had a role to play in determining the lines of effort, support requirements and resource allocation, as well as overall command and control, even if from a distance (to not do so would be to court fratricide, confusion and duplication of effort among other things), but you can of course only go with what the sources say. AustralianRupert (talk) 04:02, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
is there any information about casualty numbers that could be added?
- Sadly, none that I have found.
Bukakata-Nyendo roads: the hyphen should probably be an endash here
- Done.
Ugandan rebel forces did not have the strength...: maybe add a conjunction to this sentence to link it more clearly to the previous one
- Now However, Ugandan rebel forces did not have the strength...
Kampala is overlinked in the Aftermath
- Fixed
if all the images of the war are rights restricted (per the above), would there potentially be a case for a single non free image, so long as it complied with the requirements of WP:NFCC?
- Added Mmbando's photo. See File:Destruction in Masaka, 1979.jpg. @AustralianRupert: I've responded to your comments. -Indy beetle (talk) 20:39, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support from PM edit

I reviewed this in detail at GAN with a view to ACR, and believe it meets the A-Class criteria. Great job! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:03, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Image review - pass edit

Apart from the map, there is only one image; I am content with the rationale provided for use.

To my mind, one image and one location map is inadequate; can I suggest including images of the two commanders, as they are available? Gog the Mild (talk) 12:54, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Gog the Mild: The photos of John Butler Walden and Isaac Maliyamungu are both under probable copyright and only included under fair-use rational for their own pages as both men are dead. -Indy beetle (talk) 16:52, 13 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Drat. Apologies, I should have spotted that. OK, there just don't seem to be any appropriate images - not that I can find anyway - so it meets the criterion. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:44, 13 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Vanamonde edit

I'm new to A-class reviews, so if any of my comments are too nitpicky for this venue, feel free to tell me so. Vanamonde (Talk) 17:21, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Colonel Idi Amin" - this is where Amin is introduced in the body, so I'd prefer this to be unambiguous: "Ugandan army colonel Idi Amin" or equivalent
- I think it's a given that Amin was a Ugandan colonel. Coups are almost always undertaken by and install internal actors, not foreigners.
  - Okay.
"failing to strongly condemn him" this is somewhat contorted wording; might it not be simpler to say "criticism from the OAU being muted", or something similar?
- Done.
"but there only about 1,000 of them" something missing here
- It seems that's been fixed.
A map of these locations would be really nice, even if it's just something showing the border and the two towns. I obviously cannot require it, this is just a suggestion.
- I don't know of any public domain detailed maps of the Masaka region. The best I could do would be to crop this to show the border and Masaka and Mbarara.
  - That would be really helpful, IMO.
    - Done.
Do we know who was responsible for ordering the violence against civilians committed by the TPDF?
- Well there was no violence against the civilians from the TPDF, just destruction to their property. I went over this in the GA review; the Tanzanian soldiers were "under orders" to destroy the town, but I have not been able find out who gave those orders.
  - Okay.
"number into the thousands" might read better as "number in the thousands".
- Done.
Without more information about where the roads/hills were with respect to Masaka, that information seems superfluous
- It's regrettable we don't have a map of these locations, but they seem quite germane to the topic at hand. Info like this seems particularly important: Their assault focused on Kitovu (which had been left undefended by the Chui Battalion's desertion), Nyendo, and the pineapple field, before concentrating on Makasa proper.
  - Do you have any information on their locations, even if a map is unavailable?
    - Unfortunately not.
The point at which the TPDF went from being prevented from attacking to being ordered to attack seems to be missing, unless I didn't see it...
- The sources aren't exactly clear on this either. It seems Nyerere only wanted to delay the attack for political reasons, but was not planning on calling it off entirely. Changed to was not yet allowed to attack the town to emphasize the temporal nature of the TPDF's orders to withhold attack.
"Mbirizi" is unlinked and otherwise unexplained; I could guess that it controlled the road from Mbarara to Masaka, but I'd prefer it made explicit.
- A look at Google maps places it in between the two towns.
  - Is this something you can add to the article?
    - That would probably be WP:OR. When you search Mbirizi an actual town does not appear, but a series of businesses and organisations that are clustered in one area along the road. I think where the text is at in the article (which best reflects what the source says) it implies well enough that Mbirizi was a location between the two, but to go further would be beyond what the source supports.
"provide cover for the TPDF's actions" I'm slightly confused here; in this paragraph, it seems as though Nyeyere was pretending Tanzanian troops were not in Masaka, but in the next, he is challenging Amin, and obviously therefore acknowledging their presence.
- The source reads as follows: "Guerrilla forces and rebellious army units announced yesterday that they control Masaka, but Amin claimed his troops recaptured the startegic southern town. President Julius Nyerere of Tanzania challenged Amin today to allow observers into Masaka to prove the Ugandan Army is in control." It seems he was still maintaining the bluff that it was Ugandan dissidents that had seized the town. I've added the Ugandan rebels' claims to the relevant portion of the text to offer some clarification.

@Vanamonde93: I've responded to your comments. -Indy beetle (talk) 23:07, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Indy beetle: A few responses above. Vanamonde (Talk) 23:36, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Vanamonde93: Responses to you your responses. -Indy beetle (talk) 04:43, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not terribly happy about a couple of the gaps I've noted above, but I think what can be done with them has been, and with the caveat that I'm not familiar with ACR, I think it's comprehensive enough for this level: so support. Vanamonde (Talk) 14:30, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.