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Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk/Archives/2024 July 16

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July 16

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07:11, 16 July 2024 review of submission by Yara Jenkins

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My subject is a fairly new celebrity. There is not going to be a whole lot of coverage on him right now. Yara Jenkins (talk) 07:11, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yara Jenkins Please disclose your connection with this person, see conflict of interest. You claim that you took the image of him.
If there is no significant coverage about him in independent reliable sources, there cannot be an article about him on Wikipedia. This typically does not happen with a person until the person has "already arrived" in terms of celebrity, not a new or "up and coming" celebrity. 331dot (talk) 07:15, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

08:02, 16 July 2024 review of submission by Metalzoneuae

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How can I change this article so that it is not an advertisement but rather an information article. please provide with sections that I should remove and add? Metalzoneuae (talk) 08:02, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked for username and promotion. 331dot (talk) 08:11, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

08:04, 16 July 2024 review of submission by 103.102.117.13

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Why is my draft rejected ? 103.102.117.13 (talk) 08:04, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The reason was clearly given by the reviewer, "This topic is not sufficiently notable for inclusion in Wikipedia". The draft has now been deleted as promotional. It seems like you are writing about yourself- that is highly discouraged, please see the autobiography policy. You should learn more about Wikipedia before attempting the most diffficult task here, creating a new article. Your draft was completely unsourced. 331dot (talk) 08:10, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

09:53, 16 July 2024 review of submission by Maxim13124

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I wanted to create an Article about myself, but I dont have any Sources like Newspapers, because I am only known on Social Media like Instagram or Discord. What can I do, so my Wikipedia Article gets accepted ? Maxim13124 (talk) 09:53, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Maxim13124: you should not be writing about yourself at all; see WP:AUTOBIO. And by the sound of it, you're not notable enough to have an article published. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:01, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

10:04, 16 July 2024 review of submission by Leemhwiki12

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Hi there, I am editing my sandbox article as per the comments provided by the wiki editors. I'd like to change my article to a BIO:Academic but am unsure how to do this. I have already restructured the article to match a BIO:Academic template. Thank you Leemhwiki12 (talk) 10:04, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Leemhwiki12: sorry, I don't understand what you're asking. What is "BIO:Academic template"?
Or are you saying you would like to show that this person is notable according to the notability guideline for academics? If so, then there is nothing you need to change or restructure; you just need to provide evidence that they meet one of the eight criteria listed in WP:NACADEMIC. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:13, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies, currently it fails the WP:BLP which is my error. I would like to rewrite as WP:NACADEMIC article. Leemhwiki12 (talk) 10:22, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi there, I am adding references for an academic bio. We have more primary references than secondary. I am wondering other than a literature review of the academics works, what other sources are considered secondary and are appropriate to a career academic? Thank you Leemhwiki12 (talk) 10:19, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
PS: Please don't start a new thread, just add to your earlier one. (I've merged your two threads.) -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:37, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Leemhwiki12: BLP is our policy for articles on living people, which among other things sets referencing standards which are stricter than for most other topics. It is not a notability guideline.
Notability (which is a core requirement for inclusion in Wikipedia) is in most cases established according to the general WP:GNG guideline. With some topics there are special guidelines, in the case of scientists/academics, the WP:ACADEMIC guideline. You only need to meet one guideline: GNG is fairly clear-cut, so if you can find sufficient secondary sources to meet that, it's the easiest one to go for. If such sources don't exist, then ACADEMIC is probably your only option, but meeting it requires significant career achievements, meaning that only a small fraction of the world's academics are likely to meet it.
Does this help clarify things? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:36, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, I really appreciate your help. Leemhwiki12 (talk) 10:38, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

10:24, 16 July 2024 review of submission by Dt12345673838

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Please help me get this accepted, help me what to change or add. please Dt12345673838 (talk) 10:24, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Dt12345673838: you need to show that the person is notable; see the advice in the decline notice.
I noticed that you've uploaded both photos as your own work. Did you actually take these yourself? If so, what is your relationship with the subject? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I hope this message finds you well. I am writing to appeal the decision regarding the inclusion of Elliot Salkow in the Wikipedia. I believe Mr. Salkow meets Wikipedia's notability criteria due to his significant contributions as the founder of Ellies Holdings, a prominent figure in the broadcasting technology sector in South Africa. Mr. Salkow's entrepreneurial achievements and impact on the industry are well-documented in several reliable and independent sources. These sources highlight his role in founding and leading Ellies Holdings, which has been a cornerstone in South Africa's broadcasting industry. I have compiled a list of reputable sources that provide detailed coverage of Mr. Salkow's career and contributions. I kindly request a reconsideration of the decision and the inclusion of Elliot Salkow in the Wikipedia article, accurately reflecting his pivotal role in the company's history and the broader industry. Thank you for considering my appeal. I look forward to your response. Best regards,
- Firstly he has a wikipedia article about his business- HE the CEO is bigger then the business https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellies_Holdings - Secondly search him up Thirdly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12pJxdKSqMU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykglp4i95vk Dt12345673838 Dt12345673838 (talk) 10:37, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Dt12345673838: it's not our job as reviewers to "search him up". We assess drafts based on the evidence provided therein. You say that his "achievements and impact on the industry are well-documented in several reliable and independent sources" – then you need to cite those sources in your draft. (In fact, you should base your draft on summary of those sources, citing each one against the information it has provided.)
Whether an article exists on the business this person founded/owned/managed has nothing to do with whether an article on the person can be published. Each subject must establish its own notability, as notability is not inherited. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:46, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
family Dt12345673838 (talk) 10:38, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So what should I do? As I am lost? Dt12345673838 (talk) 10:41, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Dt12345673838 I hope this does not seem patronising, but "the work" is what you should do. You want the draft accepted, so do the work as advised. 🇺🇦 FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 🇺🇦 10:52, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@DoubleGrazing The files are up for deletion on Wikimedia Commons as copyright violations 🇺🇦 FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 🇺🇦 10:57, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, I was just offended by @DoubleGrazingsaying "notability is not inherited". As we know Elliot Salkow worked very hard from selling mirrors from his car to becoming the top 10 wealthiest person in tech in South Africa. So we know that notability is not inherited. But I will include more articles, thanks for the feedback. I have submitted a new draft. Thanks all. Dt12345673838 (talk) 11:13, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Dt12345673838: I wasn't saying that he inherited (or not) anything, or that he didn't work hard. I was saying that notability, in the Wikipedia context, is not transferred by association from one subject to another; see WP:NOTINHERITED. In other words, even if the business in question is notable, this confers no notability on the individual. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:20, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh Ok. Sorry. Thank you for helping me. Dt12345673838 (talk) 11:22, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The images have been delated. Sorry, they must have been sent out by other family memebers to websites writing articles about him. Sorry again. Dt12345673838 (talk) 11:24, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My draft got rejected again. I know it’s not your job to do research. But I have like 8 links on him. Cited everything. I need some help or guidance please 101.173.103.69 (talk) 11:44, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please remember to log into your account whenever editing (I'm assuming you're Dt12345673838?).
The sources do not provide significant coverage of Salkow. Most make only passing mentions, and/or cover his business rather than him. One doesn't even mention him, and one returns 'page not found'. The only one that discusses him more extensively is the TechCentral piece, but it is a first-person account by someone who knew him, so it isn't secondary, and possibly also not entirely independent and/or reliable; in any case, it alone wouldn't be enough to establish notability. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 12:26, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please note that Wikipedia has little interest in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is almost entirely interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources. If enough material is cited from independent sources to establish notability, a limited amount of uncontroversial factual information may be added from non-independent sources.
For every source you want to cite, examine it critically against the three criteria in WP:42: only if it meets all three will it contribute at all to establishing that the subject meets Wikipedia's notability criteria. ColinFine (talk) 20:48, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Dt12345673838 you may follow the process at c:COM:VRT to seek to have the pictures restored. The copyright owner must licence the files correctly for Wikimedia Foundation to be able to use them.
Ownership or possession of a photo, proprietorship of the equipment used to take the photo, or being the subject of the photo does not equate holding the copyright. The copyright holder is the photographer (i.e. the person who took the photo), rather than the subject (the person who appears in the photo) or the person possessing the photo, unless transferred by operation of law (e.g. inheritance, etc.) or by contract (written and signed by the copyright holder, and explicitly transfers the copyright). 🇺🇦 FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 🇺🇦 18:00, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

17:40, 16 July 2024 review of submission by Shmego

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I was told that I should try and direct this to the namespace myself, but I'm unsure of how to do that. This article has over 22,000 bytes so it is clearly notable enough. I'm just not exactly sure how to replace the redirect with this article. Shmego (talk) 17:40, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Shmego I think you need to have conversations with S0091 and/or Hurricane Noah. 🇺🇦 FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 🇺🇦 17:57, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

20:55, 16 July 2024 review of submission by Mquashiesam

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I was wondering why this article was ruled not relevant enough for Wikipedia as there is over 100k people who consider themselves to be members or citizens of this nation. Mquashiesam (talk) 20:55, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mquashiesam Perhaps you should ask the reviewer who rejected it. 🇺🇦 FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 🇺🇦 21:00, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
will do Mquashiesam (talk) 21:55, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

21:46, 16 July 2024 review of submission by Aasiea

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I would like to publish an image of Mahgul Ali, the same one that was recently removed due to licensing. After looking at the image use policy, the image provided would be categorized as "Own Work" because it is a photograph provided by the family. Do we need to have a copyright on the image before uploading it again? Aasiea (talk) 21:46, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Aasiea: That is not how this works, at all. As far as images are concerned, the copyright to the image lies with the person who originally took it (or commissioned it), not with whoever happens to own the physical image or an image file. Also, images do not help a draft a whit; your problem is you have no content other than references and an infobox. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v threads critiques 03:10, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the input. There will be more content uploaded soon! However, is there some guidance you can give with photos. Can we commission the photo? Aasiea (talk) 18:54, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Aasiea! What you need to do is either take the photo yourself (in which case you own the copyright to it, because you created it), or get the copyright for it. If you think you might be able to commission a photo, you should tell the photographer that you need to own the copyright to it - they may ask for more money than usual, since if the photo is yours they can't use or sell it unless there is a contract between you specifying otherwise. Discuss this directly with whoever is going to take the photograph.
Something very important is that if you upload the photo to Wikimedia Commons, which I think is what you plan to do, you are giving up that copyright. Everything on Commons is available for anyone to do whatever they want with, as long as they give attribution (say where it came from). So if someone wants to edit the photo and use it somewhere else, even if it's negative and might harm the reputation of the person in the photo, they can do that and there is nothing you can do about it. Make sure you don't care about that before you upload! Have a look at this page on Commons for more information. I hope that helps! StartGrammarTime (talk) 01:03, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

21:48, 16 July 2024 review of submission by Mquashiesam

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There is currently a group of over 70 people who are looking for micronation inclusion in Wikipedia "WikiProject Micronations" There are also many micronations already included in Wikipedia. Yet this one is being treated as not notable Mquashiesam (talk) 21:48, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mquashiesam: We don't cite TikTok (no editorial oversight), and we can only cite YouTube videos that are both created by an outlet we consider to have editorial oversight (such as, say, the BBC) and uploaded to that outlet's verified channel. I will say it again: Wikipedia is not for things made up for school one day. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v threads critiques 03:00, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:Producer

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Hi guys! Can we approve a draft for a show producer in this case based on this criteria?

I read what you shared. For the WP:producer - The person has created or played a major role in co-creating a significant or well-known work or collective body of work. In addition, such work must have been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews, or of an independent and notable work (for example, a book, film, or television series, but usually not a single episode of a television series);
It says he has served as a talent producer and booker for all 5 seasons of Kelly Clarkson, producing music part in every episode. If we add the links to credits, do you think it could be an option? Considering receiving an Emmy for it- as the recognition of his work on that.

Full discussion here- User talk:Qcne#https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Christopher McDonald (booking agent)

The person produced 104 episodes of the show, and received Emmy for that. He had one acting role, but he obviously does not meet the requirements for the acting category. J2009j (talk) 23:45, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@J2009j: can I just clarify what it is you're asking here – are you wanting us to overrule the decline (or rather, series of declines)? And why would we do that? Or are you trying to move the earlier discussion from Qcne's talk page here, and if so what do you want others to contribute to it?
To pick up on your last point, whether this person did 104 episodes, or 1,040, does not establish notability. I also don't think the Emmy does, although I could be wrong on that. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:51, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@DoubleGrazing sorry, it was my suggestion to ask at the AFCHD. I haven't had much experience with NPRODUCER and wasn't quite sure if the person meets criterion 3, or not. Qcne (talk) 13:19, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh okay, got it. Thanks, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 13:27, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I meant if we can establish notability by applying point 3. Which is this one : The person has created or played a major role in co-creating a significant or well-known work or collective body of work. In addition, such work must have been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews, or of an independent and notable work (for example, a book, film, or television series, but usually not a single episode of a television series);
So that is why I added the individual was a producer of major TV show The Kelly Clarkson Show, of all 5 seasons of the show, and was nominated and received Emmy. Does this imply the person meets the criteria 3 or not. As I have seen pages that are quite less developed, with less notable work. I think saying that Emmy does not establish notability is the same as say Oscar does not establish notability. It is the main award, equivalent of Oscar for the television programs, awarded to the top performers for their work. Don't you think so? J2009j (talk) 16:52, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Qcne what do you think on my reply? I have gather bios of some other similar people- main figures behind the TV shows. I am referring to this part specifically "has created or played a major role in co-creating a significant or well-known work or collective body of work". Later this - "In addition, such work must have been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews". Notability of this show is not questionable. J2009j (talk) 19:15, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@J2009j Although I am still wavering, I decided to submit on your behalf and to accept. I feel the wider community, including all who wish who have commented upon and reviewed the draft, should examine this, now, article. I wish it luck despite my wavering. I took the view that it might be borderline. Our job is to accept drafts which we believe have a better than 50% chance of passing an immediate deletion process. Acceptance and wavering are congruent with this. We do not require perfection, we need acceptability. 🇺🇦 FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 🇺🇦 19:29, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, @Timtrent. Good outcome, @J2009j! Qcne (talk) 19:36, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Qcne Sometimes the only option is acceptance, even, perhaps esecially, when we are not sure. 🇺🇦 FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 🇺🇦 19:45, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Timtrent Thank you for your explanations. You can see I made several pages related to film industry recently. I found this particular case interesting as newspapers started using wikipedia as a source and writing press releases about a completely different person. Even some influential magazines, which is funny. J2009j (talk) 19:39, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@J2009j I find that intriguing!
For the acceptance I went back to the terms of reference we are giving as reviewers. 🇺🇦 FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 🇺🇦 19:46, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah. Not major film magazine - Deadline making this mistake 😂. The person is even of a different race. Found this on X https://x.com/AndyBehbakht/status/1799200048313442585 J2009j (talk) 19:53, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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