Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2019 October 19
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October 19 edit
Football/Soccer - goal differances edit
In football/soccer, is there a differance between goals? 86.135.188.205 (talk) 19:21, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
- I'm having a little trouble understanding your question. Are you asking about differences between the scoring systems of American football and association football (soccer), or are you asking about different kinds of goals in soccer? For the first interpretation, see the linked articles. For the second, as far as I'm aware there's only one sort of goal in soccer, though there are different ways that it can happen. --Trovatore (talk) 20:12, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
- They might also be asking about the goalposts or the distances between them. SinisterLefty (talk) 20:58, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
- In Association football (soccer) played in over 200 countries the goal is the only method of scoring and is a frame 24 feet (7.32 m) wide by 8 feet (2.44 m) tall. In Gridiron football played in USA and Canada the goal is a secondary method of scoring by kicking over the crossbar and may consist of a crossbar suspended 10 feet (3.0 m) off the ground and uprights placed 18 feet 6 inches (5.64 m) apart extending at least 35 feet (11 m) above the crossbar, with variations for high school, arena and indoor games. DroneB (talk) 22:48, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
- They might also be asking about the goalposts or the distances between them. SinisterLefty (talk) 20:58, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
- Although the query as worded is difficult to interpret, it may be that the OP was thinking of formal variants of Association football, such as FIFA-endorsed Futsal and other versions of Five-a-side football, and the six-a-side Indoor soccer particularly popular in North America. In these the goals are variously smaller than in the full 11-a-side game, with specified dimensions in at least Futsal, and doubtless specifications within given leagues of the other kinds if not internationally agreed ones. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.200.41.118 (talk) 09:43, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
I'm asking about the differance between the two goals in association football (soccer). 86.135.188.205 (talk) 19:45, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
- Please do not delete previous posts as you did here. There is no difference between the goals in a soccer game except that they are at opposite ends of the playing field and are used to score by the two competing teams. DroneB (talk) 23:17, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
- Do you mean the distance between the two ? SinisterLefty (talk) 03:52, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
- If so, FIFA stipulates that "The length [of the pitch or field] has to be minimum 90 metres (100 yds) and maximum 120 metres (130 yds)". [1] In England, The Football Association suggests 110 yards (100.5m). This page also gives the dimensions for the various different forms of soccer such as Five-a-side football and the smaller pitches used in youth games. Alansplodge (talk) 19:17, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
The reason I asked this was because in the ChuckleVision episode Football Heroes and the film The Odd Life of Timothy Green, both the Chuckle Brothers and Timothy Green were unable to play that game properly except they managed to kick the ball and score a goal, once. However, they scored the wrong goal, causing their own team to lose. So there is no difference between the 2 goals, they're both at the opposite? Like if it were England vs Wales, England's goal would be at Wales' side while Wales' goal would be at England's side? 86.128.225.228 (talk) 19:48, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
- Ok, then what you are asking is if the opposite goalposts/nets and/or surrounding areas are marked so they can easily be distinguished. It's important to ask a clear question. Now that we have one, hopefully you will get relevant answers. SinisterLefty (talk) 19:53, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
- See Own goal. Players in all goal-sports are expected to keep track of which way they're supposed to be going. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:45, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
- It should also be noted that it is exceedingly rare for a person to score an own goal because they don't know which goal they are trying to score in. 1) As noted below, it is made clear at the start of each half of the game which direction you are going in 2) All of your teammates, who are wearing the same colored shirt as you, who you practice with every day, whose faces you know and whose kids your kids play with sometimes, are going in that direction too. 3) The goalkeeper, your buddy you've been practicing with all year, whose face you know and who you've probably had lunch with a quite a few times, is standing in front of that goal, defending it. 4) You're not a complete and utter idiot. The vast, vast, vast majority of own goals are scored because of a misplayed kick; a ball goes off a foot wrong, or someone misses a pass, or something like that. There have been a very few intentional own goals, but those are oddball events, and in those cases the person was trying to score on their own goal, not that they had forgotten which way they are going (see Barbados 4–2 Grenada (1994 Caribbean Cup qualification) for a particularly notorious example). The notion that a soccer player would mistakenly think he was scoring on his opponents goal, but was really scoring on his own goal, is just silly. (It did, however, happen once in American Football. See Jim Marshall) --Jayron32 15:37, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
- There was also Roy Riegels. The fact we have articles about these instances indicates how rare they are. In basketball or hockey it's also rare, but usually the result of a blunder or deflection rather than confusion over which goal it is. And of course it can't happen in baseball. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:34, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
- As a minor nitpick, I believe misplaced headers are not that uncommon as a cause of own goals, they're sort of mentioned in our article for example. Also as mentioned in our article, precisely how you decide if something is complicated. I don't disagree with the general point namely that almost no one scores as own goal from being genuinely confused about which goal is theirs. Nil Einne (talk) 14:27, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
- It should also be noted that it is exceedingly rare for a person to score an own goal because they don't know which goal they are trying to score in. 1) As noted below, it is made clear at the start of each half of the game which direction you are going in 2) All of your teammates, who are wearing the same colored shirt as you, who you practice with every day, whose faces you know and whose kids your kids play with sometimes, are going in that direction too. 3) The goalkeeper, your buddy you've been practicing with all year, whose face you know and who you've probably had lunch with a quite a few times, is standing in front of that goal, defending it. 4) You're not a complete and utter idiot. The vast, vast, vast majority of own goals are scored because of a misplayed kick; a ball goes off a foot wrong, or someone misses a pass, or something like that. There have been a very few intentional own goals, but those are oddball events, and in those cases the person was trying to score on their own goal, not that they had forgotten which way they are going (see Barbados 4–2 Grenada (1994 Caribbean Cup qualification) for a particularly notorious example). The notion that a soccer player would mistakenly think he was scoring on his opponents goal, but was really scoring on his own goal, is just silly. (It did, however, happen once in American Football. See Jim Marshall) --Jayron32 15:37, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
The goals cannot be distinguished one from another. You can tell which is which by where the players stand before kick off. No player is allowed in the opponents' half of the pitch, so you'll see everyone standing in the same half as the goal they are defending. At half time, the teams switch directions, to balance out any factors such as wind etc. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 14:56, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
- Alert players can also tell based on which end of the field (or court or rink) is which, except when the configurations of the stands at each end are essentially identical. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:36, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
Hay Mills Rotor Station - world's first heliport? edit
I have a non-reliable source, saying that Hay Mills Rotor Station, opened 1 June 1951, was "the World's first purpose built heliport". Can anyone confirm, with a reliable source, or refute, please? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:15, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
- Igor Sikorski's first helicopter design was in 1909, so it would seem unlikely that a heliport wasn't built for 42 years. Specifically, I would suspect some were built during WW2, although possibly no more than a cleared spot with a radio shack nearby. SinisterLefty (talk) 20:44, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
- The Online Etymology Dictionary dates the word heliport from 1944. DroneB (talk) 22:29, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, both. Perhaps it was the world's first commercial, or civilian, heliport; or the first in the UK? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:57, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
- Hmmm... There was a bit of a problem translating a patent into a usable flying machine (besides the inconvenience of the Russian Revolution and Igor having to start from scratch in another country). His first design to actually go into production was the Sikorsky R-4 in which only had two seats and entered service in the winter of 1943/44 with US and British forces. There was a war on so I expect there weren't many passenger flights. The first helicopter to be delivered for commercial use was a Sikorsky S-51 on 29 July 1946, which was operated by Helicopter Air Transport from Camden Airport in New Jersey. [2] So getting around to building a specialised commercial heliport (the term is not used by any military as far as I can tell) would take some time and 1951 sounds plausible to me. Alansplodge (talk) 18:51, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
- The first experimental commercial helicopter service in the UK "...began in June 1950, with a daily service between Liverpool and Cardiff, plus a request stop at Wrexham to collect any passengers that wished to join. The route ran in a fairly straight-line from Speke Airport, over Chester, across mid Wales and past Abergavenny into Pengam Moors Aerodrome on the eastern side of Cardiff". [3] So still tied to conventional airfields at that stage. Alansplodge (talk) 19:02, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
- Hmmm... There was a bit of a problem translating a patent into a usable flying machine (besides the inconvenience of the Russian Revolution and Igor having to start from scratch in another country). His first design to actually go into production was the Sikorsky R-4 in which only had two seats and entered service in the winter of 1943/44 with US and British forces. There was a war on so I expect there weren't many passenger flights. The first helicopter to be delivered for commercial use was a Sikorsky S-51 on 29 July 1946, which was operated by Helicopter Air Transport from Camden Airport in New Jersey. [2] So getting around to building a specialised commercial heliport (the term is not used by any military as far as I can tell) would take some time and 1951 sounds plausible to me. Alansplodge (talk) 18:51, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
- And some conflicting claims: Opening Of The Brussels Heliport (01 Jul 1953) and curiously from the same news organisation, World's First Heliport Opens For 'Copters". Fort Eustis, Virginia, USA (07 Dec 1954). Contradicting my earlier assertion, Fort Eustis is a military base. Alansplodge (talk) 19:27, 20 October 2019 (UTC)