Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2009 September 13

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September 13

personality psychology

In the personality psychology article it says that one branch of the subject has to do with "Constructing a coherent picture of a person and his or her major psychological processes". I'm interested in this area. Can someone recommend a reading list for this exact subject? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oniej42 (talk • contribs) 02:27, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Bradberry, Travis. The Personality Code. New York: Putnam, 2007. Also, take a look at everything below Personality psychology#Notes, including References and Further reading Intelligentsium 17:10, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Breaking Kosher rules.

I'm simply curious, but if a Jew doesn't follow the rules of Kosher, what kind of punishment does he or she deserve? I hope this question doesn't seem Anti-Semetic in anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kitefox (talk • contribs) 09:53, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Kosher laws were originally important for survival, e.g. not eating pork because it's too easily contaminated. If you're strict Orthodox Jewish, this is not even a question, it's just something you do. If you're Conservative or especially Reform, the best reason for keeping kosher is "to remind yourself that you're Jewish", as with Catholics eating fish on Friday even though they don't have to anymore. Unless you're in a very strict and isolated community, there's no "punishment" other than maybe being hassled. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 11:21, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Poetic justice demands that they be slapped with a wet pickle. :-) StuRat (talk) 16:17, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

The late pop culinary anthropologist Marvin Harris posited that the Jews, as well as everybody else in the neighborhood, didn't eat pig because it was impractical. Pigs eat the same food humans do, and demand a lot of scarce water. Goats are much better: they change the inedible to the edible. The Kosher rules, to the observant, are a sort of full-time worship. One who breaks them is answerable only to himself. PhGustaf (talk) 16:41, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

All of the rules do indeed make sense in a hot country in an era before refrigeration. Even the seemingly strange ones like it being OK to eat beef - and OK to eat cream - but not OK to mix them in the same meal - comes about because of the way unscrupulous food vendors were attempting to disguise meat that had gone bad. But failing to follow a religious rule would presumably fall under the same kind of rules as being generally sinful - you pay the price with gods wrath in the after-life. Sadly, religious rules don't adapt to changing times. If you believe in that nonsense - then you'd damned well better follow the rules to the letter because hell implies an infinite amount of pain for an infinite duration. If you don't believe in it - then say screw it and enjoy the benefits of modern food quality standards and refrigeration and try a Steak-au-poivre with the full brandy-based cream and green-peppercorn sauce. SteveBaker (talk) 19:01, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Judaism is not so much about God being mad in your afterlife, though. Again, Auslander's book covers quite nicely (and humorously) what the perceived threat is—it is very real and current (he'll strike you down, or strike down your father, or your cow, or whatever). --98.217.14.211 (talk) 19:48, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

For a rather humorous take on what happens when you don't follow Kosher rules, I found Shalom Auslander's Foreskin's Lament: A Memoir hilarious and a rather amusing take on the Orthodox mindset. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 18:22, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

All that one needs to do is take a bath and fire up the washing machine - Leviticus 17:15. "And every soul that eateth that which died of itself, or that which was torn with beasts, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger, he shall both wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even: then shall he be clean." Tevildo (talk) 19:50, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

That's it. Thanks for the reminder. There are rituals you can go through to "reverse the curse", so to speak, of having violated kosher laws. I recall Buddy Hackett telling some convoluted story about having used the wrong kind of knife to cut some meat, and he had to bury it in his yard as part of a "cleansing" ritual. And naturally a beat-cop came along and was very curious as to why he was burying a bloody knife. How much of his story makes actual sense in reference to kosher, the experts here would have to say. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 20:03, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

And since others have broached the humor side, I must summarize this tale from The Joys of Yiddish: A Jewish man is in a meat shop and inquires as to the price of ham. Suddenly a loud clap of thunder is heard from outside. The man looks toward the heavens and says, "I was only asking!" Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 20:05, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

And there's the story about the rabbi and the priest sitting down with a beer and getting honest with each other. "Ever eaten ham, Rabbi?" "Yeah, I tried it once. Not bad. Ever had sex, father?" "Yup. Beats ham." PhGustaf (talk) 04:03, 14 September 2009 (UTC) (who will be here all week)

Those answers merge in colloquialism, "porked". Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 08:21, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

The rules of kashrut are fascinating to the outsider. A chicken's egg, for example, is pareve, neither meat nor dairy, if its hen laid it. But it's meat if it's extracted from a slaughtered hen, and can't be served with cream sauce because of the ban on cooking things in their mother's milk. PhGustaf (talk) 04:22, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Hens give milk? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 08:23, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

No, but the original law in the Torah says you mustn't cook a kid in it's mother's milk, which has been extrapolated to mean not dairy and meat mixing anywhere. Personally having been a non-observant jew my whole life I just though we went to hell if we broke the laws, though Jews don't technically have hell now do we. It's complex. Prokhorovka (talk) 08:38, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

You don't? DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:28, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Sheol is generally not considered as a place of active punishment like the Christian Hell, it's just boring. Also, one may well have reincarnation to look forward to. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 15:58, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

No Apple Apple Pie?

How does this work? How can apple pie sans apples taste the same as a normal apple pie? Or is the common apple pie more of a cinnamon pie than anything? --antilived^{T | C | G} 10:04, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Apples don't have particularly strong flavour, so I guess most of what you taste in an apple pie is the sugar and cinnamon. It probably only works if you tell people it is apple pie - if you expect to taste apples, you will do. If you just gave it to them and asked them to guess what flavour it was, they might struggle. (I'm guessing, really, I haven't actually tried cooking it - I might do so, though!) --Tango (talk) 15:03, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Also important are the texture, provided by moistened crackers, and the tartness, provided by cream of tartar (although the recipe for mock apple pie I'm familiar with used lemon juice). According to our article (actually just a redirect to apple pie): "A mock apple pie made from crackers was apparently invented by pioneers on the move during the nineteenth century who were bereft of apples. In the 1930s, and for many years afterwards, Ritz Crackers promoted a recipe for mock apple pie using its product, along with sugar and various spices."

The chemistry lesson here is that any flavor is nothing more than a group of chemicals detected by the tongue and nose, and, if you can get those receptors to fire by other means, you will taste those flavors. There's even cases where a stroke will cause people to smell and taste things which aren't there. StuRat (talk) 15:35, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Additionally, there a huge amount regarding taste that is tied to expectations. There have been studies, for example, that show that people actually like beer with balsamic vinegar in it when they don't know that the vinegar has been added (in a blind taste test). When they know, they suddenly hate it. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 18:23, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

About 10 years ago, I tried making the "no apple apple pie" recipie that Ritz crackers were promoting. I agree that it's looks, feels and tastes kinda like apple pie - and it's certainly not horrible. The huge question I've never had answered is "Why?!" - apples are pretty cheap fruit. Crackers are not (pound for pound) as cheap - and you have all of the other ingredients you have to add to complete the 'fake'. So why do these recipies persist? SteveBaker (talk) 18:44, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Back when apples were seasonal it might have been useful (if your barrel of apples go rotten, you'll have to make do without them). These days, it is a novelty, or an experiment in human perception of flavour. --Tango (talk) 19:42, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Beyond that, it seems to me this is a somewhat developed temperate and perhaps subtropical country centric POV. Presuming you actually need an equivalent mass of apples as you need of crackers (I'm not sure about that, the recipe has a lot of sugar, I'm presuming this partially substitutes for some of the sugar from the apples) I'm not convinced crackers will be more expensive in many countries then apples. I asked someone I know living in Malaysia and they suggested a price of about RM6-7 per kg of apples. I think you could relatively easily get crackers of some sort for a lower price then that. These are relatively high quality apples (Gala) so you could potentially get apples for cheaper then that (although I'm told Granny smiths are about the same), maybe even cheaper then crackers. However Malaysia isn't a great example since it's relatively developed with a high degree of imported food available in many areas. It wouldn't surprise me if in less developed tropical countries where imported food is rarer, crackers would be significantly cheaper then apples. Indeed why presuming purchased crackers anyway? You could make the crackers yourself and the ingredients (flour etc) would end up being less. Of course most people in these countries won't be interested in such Western and relatively fancy food like an apple pie but foreigners and immigrants living in these countries may be and while many of these may just choose the apples because it's simpler and more authentic, depending on the price difference and other factors they may choose the fake apple pie. And of course I'm talking modern times. Historically it wouldn't matter what the season was if you were living in countries where apples were not grown. They would still be incredibly expensive and it's easy to image people choosing the fake apple pie. Nil Einne (talk) 12:07, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

This is informative. The recipes I'd always seen had used saltine crackers rather than Ritz crackers, but a Google search comes up with a lot of recipes using Ritz crackers. There are also "mock apple pie" (as this recipe is called) recipes using zucchini. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 20:35, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

People skills

I enjoy talking, and I often enjoy talking about difficult topics, but I have been told in the past that I talk down on people, though I don't wish to do so, and nothing would make me happier than to be able to talk to all different sorts of people openly an at the same level. I'm not really sure specifically how it is that I "talk down" on other people; I often find myself holding my tongue because it is obvious that a person holds a very different belief than I do, and they don't really want to hear otherwise. I won't actually agree with them, but I'll nod and attempt to guide the conversation away from that point by asking questions or something like that. People rarely ever ask me for my opinion, but when they do, I just tell them the truth. In general I try to ask about the person I'm talking to as much as possible, instead of talking about myself, but I'm beginning to think that I may be thinking too much, although that doesn't seem to help at all.

Anyway, I know people, and hear about people, who are easy to talk to "on the same level", and "accept people for who they are", but I'm not really sure what I could be doing differently to be removed from the "smart-ass" category. Does anybody have any ideas? Thanks. Also, does this post sound condescending? lol 210.254.117.186 (talk) 10:41, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Start by reading How to Win Friends and Influence People, by Dale Carnegie. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 11:18, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

One thing which can cause the know-it-all perception is if you use bigger words than are necessary. Words like "condescending" may be a bit much for some to understand (I always visualize a painting of a convicted criminal: "Con descending a staircase", :-) ).

It's important to gauge your audience and select the words you use to suit their level. Or, to maximize your vocabulary utilization in accordance with the linguistic proficiency you've assessed. :-) Either using overly complex or overly simplistic words for a given listener may make them feel uncomfortable. StuRat (talk) 16:10, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

In one word - Listen. As a suggested goal, I would suggest trying to change your opening statement from "I enjoy talking" to "I enjoy having conversations". I've been through this myself. :) Tevildo (talk) 16:13, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

You could talk exclusively to people who enjoy talking, aren't sensitive about being condescended to, and are confident they can outwit you. 81.131.49.190 (talk) 16:57, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Reticence is a good quality. In my opinion, it is better to make progress in your own thinking, than to bring people along with you, so to speak. You will have something better to offer them at a later time. Condescension may be a necessity, or unavoidable. The more important thing is to have something worth being condescending about. Developing that I think should be a higher priority than worrying over whether you are offending someone with condescension or not. As long as you are concerned with not making people feel inferior (and you have already expressed that concern in your above post) then I wouldn't worry about it, because your concern will somehow be conveyed — in your words, in your demeanor, in your body language, in myriad and sundry undefinable things that make you the individual you are. Bus stop (talk) 17:16, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

One thing I noticed - People rarely ever ask me for my opinion, but when they do, I just tell them the truth. Be very wary of believing your opinions necessarily represent "the truth". If that's where you've been coming from, it may have a lot to do with why people think you're talking down to them. -- JackofOz (talk) 20:39, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

I interpret the turn of phase, that "I just tell them the truth" to mean that "I just give them my honest response." I don't think the original questioner was implying any kind of absolute truth. Bus stop (talk) 22:22, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

(To the OP) Your post does not sound condescending. It sounds uncomfortable and that makes listeners feel the same. Don't open your mouth unless you value what you have to tell more than what you think someone else may be thinking of you. Then enjoy sharing what you have and you will soon have them smiling. See me:  :-) Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:10, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

I have some points here, which will largely echo what others have already said:

• Firstly, the fact that you enjoy talking means nothing! To have a good conversation, the primary skill you need to develop is listening. That doesn't mean waiting patiently for the other person to stop talking so you can say whatever you've already decided to say - it means actually hearing and understanding their own POV. Skill in conversation means responding to the other person, rather than just continuing with your own theme.
• On "talking to people on their own level", again the issue is proper hearing. If they are the type of people who swear a lot, then you can swear too. If they are the Queen regnant, better then to speak formally. If it's a taxi-driver, talk about taxi-driving as the first option. But if you talk about politics, keep in mind that you are talking to someone who views politics from the perspective of a taxi-driver. The key here is to adjust to the views of whatever person is occupying whatever "rank" that society assigns them, and remember they are all fully-formed human beings. Talk to people on the level they are talking from.
• In general face-to-face conversation, try to observe body language. Watch people's faces and the way they are standing, you can see immediately the impact of your words. If their face becomes more still or they turn away, they are likely displeased with what you just said - so you have a chance to minimize or erase the damage. If they look upwards or downwards, they are likely thinking about what you just said, so give them some space and LISTEN to their next response. If they reply and at the same time raise their hand to their face, there is a good possibility that their reply is a lie. The main thing to watch out for is when your words cause discomfort to the other party. Unless you are an interrogator or have an internal need to always win, that is the sign to back off.
• The main key is not just to ask the person about themselves or their views, rather it's to listen to their response and gradually explore their persona or their views. So rather than just ask someone new "what do you work at?" then after they answer go on to say what you work at, instead find a way to respond "that sounds like a tough job, you would have to do <something-I-hate-to-do>" or "I've always wondered how you do <xx>" or "are you busy right now?". As you noted, asking people to tell you their "story" is golden - but you need to sit back and listen, which does get in the way of talking. ;)
• And when you hear contrary views, I'd recommend that rather than trying to redirect the talk you make a better attempt at understanding the other person's viewpoint. Once you understand where they are coming from, you may be able to gently nudge them away from where they stand. Of course if you arrive at direct opposition in a conversation, changing the subject is a good option, but what's wrong with politely exploring someone else's state-of-knowledge? Who knows, you might actually learn something!
• And finally, having superior knowledge or better-formed opinions does not ever mean that you must inform other people of your extra-goodness. People in general won't change their attitudes in any given five minutes. They will though respond to your interest in their views and may change their own way of looking at things if you take enough time and actually care about the other person.

Spoken as someone who's "been there done that" and made the journey from "people say you're too arrogant" to "you're so charming" and "not you, everyone loves you" and "you're so easy to talk to" - seek knowledge always, but seek wisdom first - and care about the people you talk to.

And do speak truth. In some situations you can avoid doing so, as long as you never lie. But if it's your friends, just lay out how you see it. Better yet - don't ever say it's the "truth", just say it's your opinion They will appreciate it in the long run. Franamax (talk) 00:01, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Possibly the longest post I've ever made on Wikipedia, and entirely unsourced to boot! :( Franamax (talk) 00:01, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Hasty disclaimer. Not all residents of this planet share in the glowing reviews I've reported above about my own wonderfulness. In fact, I can only cite three RL people, and I could easily come up with a more detailed sample of others who've expresed the opposite opinion. 'Struth, there is a difficulty when one writes only from the heart! Franamax (talk) 00:10, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm a bit slow. What was the first sentence of your first point again? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:21, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Uhh - I'm pretty sure it was "edit this page". ;) After that it got blurry, but reading again, I'll stick with all of it! Franamax (talk) 03:00, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

If you think part of the problem is that you are intelligent, and you need to find more intelligent people to talk to, consider joining Mensa. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:25, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Without wanting to sound bitchy, consider that Mensa members are self-selected from people to whom the fact that they (think they) are more intelligent than others is very important to them. My own contacts with Mensa members (and your mileage may differ) suggests that a high proportion of them are significantly socially awkward, which is not a good environment in which to work on improving one's own social suavity. Consider instead social groupings which tend to attract intelligent people without that being their primary raison d'être. I used to be acquainted with a former President of the British branch of Mensa (terminology not necessarily accurate, name intentionally withheld), who said that he had left Mensa to become more involved in Science Fiction Fandom because the level of conversation in the latter was superior. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 15:47, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Baseball Bugs mentioned How to Win Friends and Influence People and I agree it's a good book for this kind of thing. Some ideas in that book that seem specific to your own problem is to be genuinely interested in other people, their lives and what is important to them and to talk to them about those things. It is not so much "holding your tongue" as much as steering the conversation to areas where you do see eye to eye, or at least where you are interested in their take on it. It is great if you can find something that you both do and are both interested in, but don't give advice on the matter unless they ask for it, and ask them for advice on the matter, even if it's just to get a second opinion. Pay them respect (usually through compliments) for things you genuinely respect them for, whether it's how they dress or how they play a sport. Don't just say nice things you don't mean, and don't get sucked into areas of conversation where you think there'll be conflict (although even people with diametrically opposed opinions can have good, respectful conversations and, in the right circumstances, become good friends). A chapter in the book says you should recognise that everyone you meet is superior to you in some way, and I think it's pretty much always true. If you can identify the way in which the other person is better than you, that topic is a good one for conversation, because you honestly value their ability or position on some matter (since you identify it as being better than your own) and they are in a position of importance in the conversation. TastyCakes (talk) 16:20, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

registry of certified ISO auditors

I am trying to find out if there is a registry of certified ISO auditors. There is an international governing body for ISO standards, but is there a complete list of people who are certified to perform ISO audits, and what they are exactly certified to audit? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jjdenny (talk • contribs) 17:31, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm willing to take a shot at the last part of your question: they are probably certified to audit whether an entity, organisation, process, or commodity, should it currently or in the future want to be ISO-compliant, is compliant with what a particular ISO standard says. And ISO has many, many standards, really. So, an auditor comes to wherever with a list of features of a particular standard, and checks whether your manufacturing plant, manufacturing process or management structure is compliant with this or that particular standard. If he ticks enough 'yes'-boxes on his sheet, you probably get a certificate or something. Just a guess though. --Ouro (blah blah) 18:42, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Ah, welcome to the biggest scam ever cooked up to separate businesses from their money! </rant> Assuming you mean the ISO 9001 quality certification, I made a Google search for "canada list of iso 9001 auditors" and came up with these links: [1] and an old one [2]. You will need to search by country. I can find one list, run by the IRCA, their site is here - but they probably charge people money to be listed there! :( Can't find any ISO-certified global list of registrars just yet. Franamax (talk) 20:55, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't think there would be an ISO certified list. As the article you linked to says:

ISO does not itself certify organizations. Many countries have formed accreditation bodies to authorize certification bodies, which audit organizations applying for ISO 9001 compliance certification. Although commonly referred to as ISO 9000:2000 certification, the actual standardr to which an organization's quality management can be certified is ISO 9001:2000. Both the accreditation bodies and the certification bodies charge fees for their services. The various accreditation bodies have mutual agreements with each other to ensue that certificates issued by one of the Accredited Certification Bodies (CB) are accepted worldwide.

Nil Einne (talk) 21:17, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

This is indeed a pesky topic. Here is the ISO talking about certification bodies. They mostly waffle around, but eventually point to the International Accreditation Forum (boy, we really do have an article on everything!) website. That too looks like a "gotta pay to be listed" site, but I'd suggest you look up your country of interest (IAF Members from the left-side menu, Accreditation Body Members, View list by:Economy), then email the listed contact and ask them for a list of certified registrars in your country. Or email someone at one of the other lists I linked above. Remember that the actual external auditors/registrars are all competing with each other, so don't just take the word of the first person you talk to who says "no, we're the only ones".

Alternatively, find a few companies in your area who got the ISO 9000/14000 certification and ask them how they did it and what their experience was. And settle in for a three-year voyage, it's not going to be pretty. Good luck with it though! Franamax (talk) 21:32, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Eschange student

I have a friend in Russia, who I want to invite over San Diego, Ca for about a semester. If he is going to spend that semester studying in a local college, that makes him an exchange student. Is there some program for exchange students that would let me cut the costs? Because college fees can add up pretty high. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.8.170.157 (talk) 19:32, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

I suggest you talk to that local college, they will know what funding is available. --Tango (talk) 19:52, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

There is also a Russian consulate in San Francisco [3], which you could contact. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 20:17, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

From my tax-preparing days earlier this decade, I seem to remember, perhaps wrongly, that the U.S. Internal Revenue Code did have a tax break for hosting exchange students, although the rules were rather strict and you (or the student) might not qualify. Visit http://www.irs.gov and check the likely-looking publications. —— Shakescene (talk) 04:34, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

From personal experience, I don't think inviting your Russian friend in that way will actually make him an exchange student. It will make him a foreign student, guest student or something like that depending on the local terminology. For someone to be considered an exchange student they need to be part of an exchange program between colleges, universities, states or some other entities. The reason that this matters is that there is usually far more options for exchange students to pick and choose from courses at various levels of the host university (since the exchange program implies a trust in the education already obtained at the home university). Guest students, on the other hand, can usually only apply for certain entry level courses, and those at higher levels that the various departments consider reasonable to attend even if the content of their prerequisites hasn't actually been studied. That is, if your friend visits you and applies to college without being part of a program, his choices - and chance of even being accepted to the college - might be very limited. You are advised to investigate how the prospective college handles these issues, or I fear there might be disappointment. / User:Coffeeshivers (not at home) —Preceding signed comment added by 88.131.68.194 (talk) 06:31, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

You should also look into the kind of visa your friend will need for studying, rather than simply coming to visit you. DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:24, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

In Movies: Transportations of the Future

Can someone provide me with some movies that depict future means of transportation? For example, iRobot. Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 19:45, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

The movie called Minority Report speculates that cars would essentially be on some kind of electromagnetic tracks, and could travel at high rates of speed, and also straight up and straight down, if I remember correctly. That's not a new idea, it's been around for decades, but that film puts the idea out there in stylish fashion. But most any sci-fi film about the future will speculate on future means of transportation - the matter transporter in Star Trek, for example, which is a slightly more refined version of the exact same idea presented in the 1950s scare-flick called The Fly. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 19:58, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

As Bugs says, most SF films have some concept of advanced transportation, but they use them mostly as a secondary plot device. The Stargate franchise is built around the notion of using wormholes to flit about the galaxy, and Star Trek in addition to using those cool transporters relied on "warp drive" engines. As far as terrestrial transport, I'm at a loss. I think Blade Runner had some cool transport devices, but I'd have to watch it again to be sure. Straying outside of movies alone, Robert Heinlein had the concept of massive "rampways" stretching across the USA where each consecutive "way" ran faster than the next, so you could step farther into the centre to get on a faster ramp. Can't remember the exact book though. Another example would be the incomparable The Stars My Destination, which luckily hasn't been ruined yet by a movie version. The concept there was to "jaunt" by just thinking well about where you wanted to be, which of course totally changed every aspect of human society. Oh Gully Foyle, I hope you're never brought to film! :) So basically, I got nuthin' good about terrestrial advances in transport shown on film. :( Franamax (talk) 20:23, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Not a movie, but one of the greatest SF short stories of all time, "Repent, Harlequin!" Said the Ticktockman, discusses slidewalks and air cars. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 20:40, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

BTW, the Heinlein story Franamax is thinking of is The Roads Must Roll. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 20:41, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Thx Who then, found it and reading now. I especially like the "You know how women are" and "Calm her down" bits near the end. :) That and the "union power" and "indomitable engineer" themes - Heinlein certainly had a thought-provoking view of the world! Franamax (talk) 22:51, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Back to the Future Part II had flying cars and levitating skateboards. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:23, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Many movies (and other things) have been speculating on flying car (fiction) (unsupported/not on rails) for a long time. Going by some of the early ones, we should already have them or be very close. There's however very limited progress on that front. I know I'm not the only one to think this [4] [5] indeed I've noticed it's even mentioned in the article Nil Einne (talk) 21:54, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Let's hope it stays that way. The way people drive, can you imagine what it would be like with hundreds of personal autogyros buzzing around the city? Yikes! Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 01:01, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

We don't have to, because Bob Shaw has done it for us in his excellently thought-through novel Vertigo (aka Terminal Velocity). 87.81.230.195 (talk) 15:34, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

The detective in Alphaville apparently achieves interplanetary travel in a Ford Galaxie although the destination planet resembles 1960s Paris. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:01, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Always start with Metropolis. All that follows is pale imitation. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:53, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Metropolis? You mean that shameless derivative of A Trip to the Moon? -Elmer Clark (talk) 03:29, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

The Heinlein short story is "The Roads Must Roll" (1940); slidewalks also appeared in Asimov's the Caves of Steel (1954). The flying car in Blade Runner is the a spinner. Galaxy Quest used a gelatinous pod to travel through a wormhole. Star Wars gave us snow speeders, speeder bikes and pod racers. Clarke gave us the space elevator. Genesis II showed us intercontinental subshuttles. Gerry Anderson gave us the Cloudbase airborne aircraft carrier and other cool vehicles. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 00:27, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

If we're talking Gerry Anderson - we shouldn't forget the 'SPV' (Spectrum Pursuit Vehicle) which was driven from a rear-facing seat (using TV monitors to get you a forward-looking view) in order to provide better protection in the event of a head-on crash! SteveBaker (talk) 17:34, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Spectrum Pursuit Vehicle ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 17:50, 14 September 2009 (UTC)I fixed your link and hope you don't mind.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:09, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Here's what I want to drive along from an old Meccano magazine [6] ;) Dmcq (talk) 08:14, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

The South Park guys must have ripped that for "The Entity". ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 17:55, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

The Fifth Element has great flying cars and some nifty spaceships..hotclaws 13:21, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I should not be surprised that we have Category:Transportation in fiction. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 17:50, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

For the best in transportation, you need only look so far as Spaceballs and the spacefaring Winnebago. Dismas|^(talk) 18:43, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Nevermind the transportation, the pilot was most memorable.DOR (HK) (talk) 05:54, 15 September 2009 (UTC)