Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007 September 30

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September 30

Duck and Cover.

According to the Duck and Cover article, this fairly crazy 'nuclear safety' campaign was still run in US schools into 1980's. This amazes me - I thought it had been utterly discredited by the late 1960's. I lived in the UK throughout this period - we were not given any training whatever in schools. I'm guessing that if it was still taught in the 1980's that a lot of people here remember actually being taught this stuff. I'm curious to discover how people felt about the campaign in these later years - was it all considered to be important? Did everyone think it was a waste of time? I'd actually like some OR responses please. Any memories you may have of this phenomena would be useful. Thanks! SteveBaker 03:23, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Civil Defense was replaced by more mundate disaster preparation (such as FEMA) in the 1970s. In the 1980s I am pretty sure one was not routinely ducking and covering, though it was a time of high political and nuclear tensions. In the late 1980s and early 1990s, when I was in school in California, we learned to duck and cover as an earthquake drill, and did nothing related to nuclear war. (Note that ducking and covering is not actually a bad idea in the case of nuclear war, though it would not save you if you were directly near a nuclear blast; it was intended to prevent the total number of deaths from things like flying debris, which happens over a much greater area than just the incinerating fireball. It's not totally looney—you could significantly change the number of deaths in a nuclear war if Civil Defense strictures were undertaken—but you're still talking about millions of deaths either way.) --24.147.86.187 03:31, 30 September 2007 (UTC)--24.147.86.187 03:31, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I was watching one of the earlier video's from the campaign and you see stuff like a family out on a picnic - there is a flash of light and everyone hides under the tablecloth! I really don't think that's especially relevent advice. It goes on to say that even a sheet of newspaper could save you from severe burns. It falls into the general category of "When there is basically nothing that can be done, it's better to give people hope that they have some control over their destiny." - but I was really interested to hear whether the kids of the time thought it was relevent. It's good to know that more realistic advice was being given by the 1970's. SteveBaker 03:59, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

When I was growing up in the late 70s and through the 80s, I knew about Duck and Cover as a nuclear war safety thing only because I've always been rather geeky. I doubt most of my classmates knew anything about it. We did however learn to get under our desks in the event of a tornado if we could not get down to the basement of the building in time. We had drills where we would go to the basement and get in the fetal position with our heads against a wall as well. My wife who was born in the early 80s had never heard of Duck and Cover, the nuke version, until I showed her a YouTube video of it a few years ago. We're both born and raised in the StatesDismas|^(talk) 04:07, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

How do you think this sign made six-year-olds feel?

I can tell you that in the 80s -- even in the early 80s when the Cold War was quite cold -- there was no "Duck and Cover"-type program at my school. We had fire drills and tornado drills, but nuclear bombs were never mentioned. On the other hand, there was one of these signs pointing toward the basement where presumably we would have been herded in case of attack. That sign always freaked me out. -- Mwalcoff 04:16, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I'd be confused about the arrows pointing in different directions. Dismas|^(talk) 05:39, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

In 1983 a friend's daughter (in Los Angeles public school) was disciplined for refusing to get her trousers dirty in a "drop drill", which I gather was of the same genus as duck'n'cover. I myself have an extremely dim memory of crouching in a prescribed position, at least once, in a Pasadena school circa 1967; and my school had a chart of relevant siren patterns .... —Tamfang 05:44, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

She was probably disciplined for disobeying an order from a teacher, not for opposing the obviously useless drill. --froth^t 06:34, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Tomayto, tomahto, let's call the whole thing off. The point is that such a drill was held at all. —Tamfang 19:22, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

• Comment. This question has led me down one of those pesky 4 hour rabbit trails.. this time into McCarthyism. Contrasting that page with this one has my blood boiling over that insuffrable polemic. --froth^t 07:38, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Steve: the early 1980s in the UK were the period of Protect and Survive, the information leaflet referred to in When the Wind Blows. I can highly recommend the latter publication.SaundersW 12:32, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

We had an honest-to-goodness bomb shelter at my school, so no ducking under the desks for us. StuRat 13:11, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I was in sixth grade in a school in the Washington DC suburbs in 1959. We did duck-and-cover drills, and we did not think they were ridiculous. There was not yet a presumption that a nuclear war would be unsurvivable: that perception grew throughout the 1960's. Until at least the early 1970's, the bulk of the U.S. and Soviet nuclear arsenals were bombs, not missles. The strategy was to use the missles to destroy enemy bombers bases ("first-strike") and to destroy command centers and anit-aircraft defenses to clear the way for the bombers. In this scenario, civil defense actually seemed to make sense. -Arch dude 18:13, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Wait, how does that make sense? They're being warned to duck and cover if they see a blinding flash, which wouldn't occur due to conventional weapons. And if they're being missile'd to clear the way for nuclear bombers, they're not going to have a lot longer to live anyway. --froth^t 18:56, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

The light should be visible for a much larger area than the immediate death area, which is only a few miles. The blast shock wave travels slower than the speed of light and creates damage over a much wider area than the deadly radiation, the firestorm even slower and over a less predicable but potential even larger area. (Effects of nuclear explosions) Rmhermen 19:50, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I see nothing crazy about avoiding severe burns from a nuke blast at a distance where you are not incinerated by the initial effects, and of avoiding being fatally cut by flying glass. We live in an era when more and more nutty countries are acquiring nuclear weapons and where suicide bombers routinely blow themselves up. How long until some power-mad "national leader" uses one against his perceived enemies, or until one of the well funded international terrorist organizations acquire one and bring it into their target country as easily as dope and illegal aliens enter, or send it in via ship to a port, or in a cargo container? It is no longer the case that one nuke would mean thousands more were on the way to end the existence of the human race, as it was during the Cold War. Isolated relatively small nuclear attacks could, sadly, become a recurring 21st century phenomenon. The U.S. recently lost track of a number of nuclear weapons when they were supposedly mistakenly loaded on a B52. Do you suppose the former Soviet Union's nuclear weapons guarding is more secure, or that soldiers guarding the weapons are immune to bribery. or that emerging nuclear powers keep theirs any more secure? Edison 20:32, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

For comparison: I grew up in the Netherlands in the sixties and seventies and I have never had, nor heard of, such drills. The only thing that reminded of a possible threat was the monthly sirens-tests, and there was talk about stopping those. I used to joke that any invaders should attack on the fist monday of the month at noon, because that's when the sirens were tested. The threat didn't feel real at all.

Until one day (early seventies) my mother discovered something. An entrance to a set of caves (many of those around Maastricht) had always been closed, but one day it was open, and there all sorts of 'keep out' signs. So my mother walked in (I suppose I got most of my genes from her). Instantly, US soldiers came rushing at her, ushering her out. When she told this, we concluded there must be some military installation there, possibly (nuclear) missiles. Which would be a prime target in an invasion. I should add that there was also an AFCENT base in Maastricht. We decided that if there would be a nuclear attack we'd run outside to receive the full blast, so we wouldn't have to live a post-nuclear world. We didn't take the threat too serious, though, nor did anyone else, at least I can't remember any talk about this or clips on tv or such. DirkvdM 06:58, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Those sirens are actually still in regular use in some parts of the USA. The tornado alert sirens in many parts of Texas and Oklahoma are the very same ones that were set up in the 1950's as nuclear attack warnings. The ones in my local area have started to malfunction (not surprising since they are 50 years old!) and the cost of replacing them is not insignificant. They are incredibly loud. SteveBaker 15:19, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I vaguely remember that the US government was still trying to sell people on the idea of dropping into culverts and hiding under doors to survive nuclear attacks as recently as some time in the '90s, but I can't find references off-hand. However, this brings me to one of my favorite movies - Ladybug Ladybug, a little-remembered film that should be seen for the paranoia of the times. A small rural elementary school's civil defense system goes haywire and notifies the school that a nuclear attack is eminent. The school tells all of the kids to go home, and the story ends with the kids rushing home to warn their parents of nuclear catastrophe. It starred William Daniels as the principal. The ending is harrowing. [1]Corvus cornix 16:46, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I know that this is an extremely late edit, but I have something to add. In October of 1962 I was a nine year old grade school student in central Illinois, USA. I quite clearly remember having nuclear attack drills at school during the thirteen days of the Cuban Missle Crisis. The drills did involve getting into a fetal position with our heads touching the interior hallway walls.Chief41074 (talk) 20:36, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

please answer!

why does Melanesia called as Black Island? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.84.188.10 (talk) 05:58, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Melanesia was so named because the indigenous inhabitants have dark skin. "Mela" is from the Greek word "melas", meaning black. It also appears in words such as melancholy and melatonin. -- JackofOz 07:59, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

What is this font?

What is the font used in the YouTube clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry1sjgf7jrI ? (Seen at 00:03 and 00:23) -- JSH-alive ^(talk)_(cntrbtns)^{(mail me)} 06:44, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

It is a form of san serif font. A service like Identifont might help. See this article for more. --Mdwyer 17:51, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Identifont is not helpful for me now.--JSH-alive ^(talk)_(cntrbtns)^{(mail me)} 08:53, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Conserving the battery life of a watch

I own a slightly expensive swiss quartz watch that I use only for a few weeks during summer. It is now nearly 2 years old and the watch did not come with a manual and I could not find the battery life from the internet either. How many years can the battery last when I turn the watch off during the idle months?. I do not want to open the watch to remove the battery since that might damage waterproofing.

If you use it that little, I'd expect it not to run down due to energy usage, but due to age, instead. I think 5 years is the typical shelf life for such a battery, but it's hard to say without knowing the model number of the battery. CR2032 may be the most popular model, so I'd start there. Incidentally, how do you turn the watch off without pulling the battery ? Does your watch have an on/off switch ? I've never seen that before (because of the obvious issue of having to reset the time when you turn it back on again). StuRat 13:00, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

The watch does not have any on/off switch. Like any other quartz watch, the movement stops when you pull the adjusting button(do not know its name - its on the right side).Does that cut of the power frm the battery to the quartz movement?

Probably not. So the battery may run down quicker than I was thinking it would. StuRat 21:37, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

The above method is used by owners of vintage Bulova Accutron models. Not for battery economy although the batteries are rare but to prevent unnecessary wear during storage. With an Accutron you can hear the tuning fork ring indicating that it is still using the battery. With a Quartz watch (I have just tested) you still hear the tick indicating that the quartz is still accessing the battery. Test your watch. Batteries are cheap anyway. Paul

Batteries are indeed cheap. However, replacing them will surely affect the water resistance. I tested my watch as you suggested and surprisingly heard no tick. it looks like the watch will remain like this till summer.

The batteries in my cheap Casio lasted for about 10 years, I believe. I assume it matters a lot whether it's a hands-watch or with an lcd screen. The latter probably uses up much less power. Also, if there is a light in it, preferably don't use that. DirkvdM 07:02, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I would have thought that a proper watch-repair shop would be able to replace the battery without affecting the water-resistance. It would be a pretty terrible watch if you couldn't replace the battery without ruining it - if it's a quality watch, the designers will surely have thought of that. SteveBaker 15:15, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, for one the thread should fit so 'snugly' (what do you call that) that that in itself should be enough. But I believe they can also apply a spray-on plastic coating or something. DirkvdM 17:44, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Wii Adverstiements

Does anyone know the name of the song played in the background of Wii ads, and if so do you know where i can downlaod it? 75.19.69.116 09:47, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

It's called "Kodo-Inside the Sun Remix." It's by the Yoshida Brothers off of their album "Yoshida Brothers Volume II." It's on iTunes.Aquaman590 17:10, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank You. 75.19.69.116 04:32, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Remedies for Insomnia

Anyone that has insomnia would know how annoying it is. I go to bed at 11pm and can't fall asleep until like 3am. And then I have to get up at 7am. So that's only 4 hours of sleep, and I don't have any energy to do anything during the day. So is there any effective remedies to combat insonmia?? (Apart from the ones mentioned in the Insomnia article) Thanks. Oidia (talk) 13:08, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I will restrict my answer to non-medical solutions:

1) Be sure you aren't consuming any stimulants, like caffeine, during the day, especially after noon, as they make it difficult to get to sleep early.

2) Try exercising to tire yourself out right before bed.

3) Eat foods for dinner that promote sleep, like turkey containing L-tryptophan.

4) Try to eliminate, block, or cover up noises and lights at night, with dark drapes and possibly a white noise machine to drown out crickets, etc.

5) Sex always seems to put people (especially men) to sleep right afterwards.

6) Make sure your bed is comfy. StuRat 13:22, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

• What used to work for me when I suffered from Insomnia was a shower before bed. However, I did find there was a time-limit: if I stayed awake doing other things for about 45 minutes after the shower, the reverse would happen: I'd be wide awake. It seems that the cooling off from the shower stimulates sleep (I read that somewhere).
  

Another tip is to get enough sun. A lot of people don't, and there is a chemical that you get from being in the sun that assists with sleep - I think its dopamine. More than that your body uses circadian rhythms (rhythms of the sun) which affects your sleeping patterns - so in theory if you spend a day in natural light - your body will learn to tell the difference between day and night and you should get sleepy.

Finally, in terms of self-hypnosis, some people have a 'bed' routine that helps them put themselves to bed. For this reason I've read some insomnia advice that says don't use your bed for non-sleeping activities, e.g. watching TV or reading - IF you stay awake doing these things.

I hope some of that helped. Rfwoolf 14:03, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

A lot of people swear by a cup of warm (not hot) milk a short time before going to bed. -- JackofOz 14:18, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Listening to a favourite story or play can help one relax, and then slip into sleep. NOT a new (unheard) piece, however - that will keep one awake!90.9.87.132 14:26, 30 September 2007 (UTC)DT

I'd say nothing with lyrics, as the language processing part of your brain can keep you awake when active. StuRat 21:32, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, that depends, Stu. A lot of parents will attest that their kids nod off a short time after you start reading them a bedtime story. -- JackofOz 22:01, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

My bedtime favorites include some songs in languages I don't understand. —Tamfang 22:02, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I drink Jack Daniels. It may not work but its a pleasant folk remedy. Paul —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.86.166.234 (talk) 21:54, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

The point about audio/lyrics is that because they are familiar they need no processing. The familiarity can just sweep over the brain and give it a little to do, but keep it off problem or worry areas. In this instance lyrics are essential. I imagine familiar tunes would have the same effect, but for me it is oral sound that does the trick.86.197.40.148 13:06, 1 October 2007 (UTC)DT

Using information from films is generally a bad idea, but in Fight Club, the doctor sugests, valerian root and plenty of excercise.

Maybe worth looking into? Dont just do it because someone off the internet told you about a film, read up first.88.110.203.63 16:29, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

(FYI, it's probably not a good idea to suggest anything like Valerian root, and considering what else the people do in Fight Club. . .)
If you want to fall asleep at about 11pm every night, stay up all night one day. The next day will be hell (don’t do anything the next day!), but then go to bed at 11pm that night and every night after. The thing that really gets you is if that “bed time” inches later and later so when you really do need to sleep at 11 your body doesn’t feel tired. Also, listen to the BBC until you feel sleepy. I find that what really keeps me awake is when I’m repeating an endless stream of thoughts in my head. Listening to the radio breaks that cycle and gives me something else to concentrate on. Maybe it will work for you too. --S.dedalus 00:05, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

When people (who are not chronic insomniacs) give advice it tends to appear that they think the problems with not sleeping are "you're not tired" or "you're too awake". Because when a typical person says they couldn't get to sleep these are probably the reasons. If you've not slept for a week you are very tired so making your bed comfy or having a shower probably isn't going to help.

As someone who has never taken less than 2 hours to fall asleep I can only say what helps me:

1) Keep to a routine. When I'm working 9-5 and getting to bed at a regular time, I'm much better than on my holidays which are often filled with very little sleep.

2) There is a 'sweet spot' when I can get to sleep, in 3-4 hour cycles. If I normally get to bed at 11pm, and am not asleep by 2am, I probably wont get to sleep till 5am. If I get to bed after 1am, I'll probably not sleep till 5am.

3) Think about nice things before you sleep, not things that require much thought processing though. Remember a nice holiday you had or a nice night spent with your SO, think about the same thing every night. You can even call this meditation.

I don't really believe chronic insomnia can be remedied. But there are certainly things that make it worse. Caffm8 23:29, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

An essential thing to do is to make sure the room you are in really is completely dark. If you can see enough to move about then it is too light. I had same problem, then I made sure room was pitch black with very thick heavy curtains and slept like a log. 80.2.201.6 16:22, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

parapsychology

how do you call a person that can feel something about someone or something just by handlingthat persons jewelry or other personal belongings.Iknow its starts with chro.....thank you for your time in answering this question .Jani —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.10.132.17 (talk) 13:58, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

That would be Psychometry, and the practitioner of it is called a "psychometrist". -- JackofOz 14:21, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Clairsentience if you believe in ESP clairvoyance etc. Paul —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.86.166.234 (talk) 21:52, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, it is unfortunate that someone trained in psychometrics is also called a psychometrist... Adam Bishop 01:11, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Do we know which usage came first? -- JackofOz 00:19, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

The Oxford English Dictionary dates the psychometry derivative from 1854 and the psychometrics one from 1914. The Dictionary also lists "psychometer" as a (now-"rare") synonym of the former and "psychometrician" as a synonym of the latter. --zenohockey 02:26, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Eleanor Crosses

There are 12 original crosses marking the route that the party carrying the body of Eleanor of Castile from Lincoln to Charing Cross. All seem to be well documented. There are however other replicas not on the route. I am particularly interested in finding out the link between Eleanor and Sledmere in East Yorkshire. There is a replica cross there built in 1890 approximately 600 years after the death of Eleanor. What is the connection between Eleanor and Sledmere ????

As the article eleanor cross says it's a fake/replica - the cross is actually a war memorial87.102.19.191 21:39, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Just to amuse you, I once heard that a tour guide told tourists on April Fool's Day that the Charing Cross is an early medieval stone church that over the years has become buried until only the steeple prodrudes. While I am dismayed by such unprofessionalism, I admire the creative thinking... it's a very convincing story when you look at the cross itself. --Dweller 12:00, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Colorado River and the Colorado River in Texas

I've looked every where and cant find where the Colorado River in Colorado and the Colorado River in Texas connect. I was thinking that they might connect in New Mexico somehow but I don't know.

link to the Colorado River in Colorado: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_River_(U.S.)

link to Colorado River in Texas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_River_(Texas)

Question submitted by: Kelly

They don't connect. They are two different rivers. (This is why they have two separate Wikipedia articles.) --Anonymous, 17:08 UTC, September 30, 2007.

Freighter cruises

I heard it was to possible to book cruises on big freighters, tankers or other commercial vessels. Would anyone have more info or links to a travel agent that offers such trips? Thank you AK 81.240.113.172 17:16, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Search google for sailing with "tramp steamer" and apparently "banana boat". Rmhermen 17:40, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Got it, an even better search term is freighter travel ... don't know what's up with banana boats. AK 87.65.9.22 18:54, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I regularly travel on Container Ships. Put 'Freighter Travel' into Google, you will be surprised at the number of agencies there are, US and UK who will book you for short trips or round the world voyages (don't call them cruises, it upsets us regular voyagers!) Bon Voyage!--88.111.0.14 06:06, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Yepee I'm doing UK - Buenos Aires in 34 days with an Italian company. 88 would you have any advice about the trip itself (things to bring, things not to do etc.) Thank you AK 81.242.83.238 06:58, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

81, this is too big a request for these pages, feel free to ring me on xxx --88.111.0.14 08:14, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the offer, I've added a message in the discussion page of your user IP link. AK 81.242.83.238 11:43, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I've removed your phone number.Do you really want random Wikipedians ringing you up? Lemon martini 12:54, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

If they wanted to talk about this subject, I would not mind at all!!--88.111.120.104 17:06, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

nitrous?

video games for xbox with nitrous? --Ginoeri 17:35, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Ridge Racer 6? Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas if you're willing to play several hours. --froth^t 19:02, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Bear-riding

Assuming you could find a bear willing to try it, would it be possible to ride one? I just mean physically possible, not dependant on the temperament of the bear. Their cubs ride piggy-back style, so I'm more thinking of sitting upright, like on a horse. --Masamage ♫ 18:52, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I read a horrible story years ago (smacks of urban legend) that vacationers in the mountains saw a cute adolescent black bear begging for food. They stopped their car, as tourists inadvisedly do, to take pictures of the bear. It was friendly, so they posed their child on its back, as if it were a pony. Then it loped off into the woods, the child holding onto it. Presumably the bear then had a tasty lunch . Edison 20:22, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

The fearsome bear calvalry fill the hearts of their enemies with dread. Lanfear's Bane 10:50, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Huh...okay. So it sounds like this is the kind of thing a bear could do, but wouldn't, which is what I'm looking for. As opposed to, say, a walrus, which probably couldn't carry a human well even if it wanted to. --Masamage ♫ 20:30, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Umm, your Pacfic Walrus can be about 23 times as heavy as a male human adult. What would be the problem with something that large carrying something so light? Sure, your feet might drag along the ground, but... --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:16, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

My assumption was that there'd be no place to sit that wouldn't be flopping everywhere when the big guy starts moving. --Masamage ♫ 20:22, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Also, it would be kinda wet and you'd slip off - theres nothing to hold onto, only slippery blubber Think outside the box 12:17, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

In The Golden Compass, Lyra rides a were-polar bear. Corvus cornix 21:29, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't recall Ior Ioeak the bear being a werebear.. they were armored, talking bears. Were implies they had human forms. He walked through town as a bear scaring the shit out of people. Kuronue | Talk 15:35, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Launching an ICBM

It is often referred by historians that the Cold War was a war of buttons. In this they are referring to the devastating powers of nuclear missiles. But in modern United States, assuming all the procedures are taken care of, what is the final action for launching a nuclear ICBM? Does one actually press a button? Thanks. Acceptable 20:13, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

In the USA, it used to be two people turning keys at a separation too great for either one of them to reach to turn both. These days, I would expect a computer command...possibly from a remote site. SteveBaker 22:03, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

This interesting article asserts that for Minuteman sites it was indeed two simultaneous key turns as the final action. It was probably different for SLBMs and certainly different for bombing runs. --Sean 22:18, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

It's two keys, of course. Didn't anyone here see WarGames?  ;-) Dismas|^(talk) 01:52, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

So immediately right after the two keys reach the full rotational distance of the keyholes, the missiles launches into the air? Acceptable 01:56, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Codes also have to be entered first, but yeah I think it's the instant the keys turn. My question is how is putting the keys across the room from each other keeping one person from doing it? Couldn't they just tape the key turned with a few feet of duct tape and cross the room and turn the other? --froth^t 04:25, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

"...simultaneous..." 79.65.119.193 06:55, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Didn't I see that in Superman? According to this article the codes in question were set to 00000000 for a couple of years. Just like my luggage. --Mdwyer 04:52, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I doubt that the missile actually goes "Whoooshhh" the instant the two keys are turned - there must be a bunch of automated steps associated with pressurizing the fuel systems, building up thrust before releasing the launch clamps and that kind of thing. ICBM's are comparable in complexity to satellite launch systems (and indeed, often share the same rocket parts) - and you still need all of the complicated 'countdown' steps. But I believe that the turning of the two keys represents the 'point of no return' - one assumes they thought of all the obvious ways that this could be circumvented - the idea is to slow down the madman in question long enough for conventional security measures to kick in. All the time you are fritzing around with duct tape, there are about 50 big guys with serious-looking guns descending on you. The question you should be asking is why the "Nuclear commit" switch on an F16 or F18 aircraft is just a regular toggle switch under one of those flip-up black and yellow striped covers. SteveBaker 15:08, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Just an FYI: American doomsday missiles have all been based on solid-fuel rockets for quite a long time, to avoid those nasty, complicated, and failure-prone "warm-up" steps that would be implied by the use of liquid-fueled rockets. There probably isn't a lot of delay between "click" and "whoosh"; they don't call the land-based version the Minuteman for nothin'!

Atlant 16:48, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

• The article I cited says there are some initial arming steps, but the key-turns are the final step which actually makes the missiles launch. Since the Strategic Air Command was always much more interested in the survivability of their counterstrike force than that of the nation as a whole, I'd be surprised if there was any undue delay built into the launch sequence. Also, speaking of men with guns, here's an amusing anecdote about letting a TV camera crew into a missile silo:

Former missileer Craig Manson recalled the following discussion during the briefing, "And part of that briefing was, 'If you hear that warble tone coming out of the box up there, then you must turn off your cameras, go to the back of the capsule, turn around and face the blast door.' Now being journalists, they were highly aggravated at this. And Eric Burns said, 'You mean, we can't film what you do?' And we said, 'no.' And he said, 'Well, what will you be doing?' And I said, 'We will be determining whether or not we have to take emergency action under an Emergency War Order.' And he said, 'Well this would be great history. We want to get that on film. We've got to be able to see that.' I patted my .38 and said, 'no' "

--Sean 18:44, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

It's two keys for both ICBMs and SLBMs. The difference is that, for SLBMs, you only need one launch site (the sub's missile control room) to launch the missiles, while for an ICBM, you need two control rooms, each with their two men turning keys.

The full launch sequence for ICBMs is actually quite complicated, and the "turn two keys" step is only the last point of human control. The full sequence goes something like this:

1. The launch order arrives at the SAC missile control bunkers. This order includes a code for verifying that the order is genuine, and a code indicating the launch pattern and targeting.
2. The two people in the bunker independantly check the verification code.
3. The launch code is entered into the bunker's computer. The computer uses this to decide on the targets and timing of launch for the missiles under the bunker's command.
4. The two people in the bunker turn their keys on the launch panel within one second of each other. At this point, the bunker's computer is committed to sending out launch signals.
5. The computer proceeds to send out launch signals to the appropriate silos. If a silo recieves launch signals for a given target from two bunkers within one second of each other, it launches the missile. Preparing to launch a missile takes very little time: by the time the silo door opens, the missile is ready to launch.
6. Over the course of possibly several hours, the computer will launch some or all of the missiles under its control, depending on the launch pattern specified.

--Carnildo 00:30, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Commander of submarine

Generally, in the United States, what is the rank of the commander of an Ohio-class SSBN and similarly, what is the rank of the commander of a Virginia-class SSN? Thanks. Acceptable 20:18, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

His/Her rank is Captain and commands the boat, unless there is a flag officer, such as a Admiral on the boat. He/She wears Colonel's rank insignia, which is a Eagle. See Military Ranks for more info. 65.163.113.182 07:36, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

According to Commander#United_States_Navy (one rank below Captain) they "may command a frigate, destroyer, submarine, aviation squadron or shore installation". Whether a nuclear powered/capable sub would be commanded by the more junior rank is something I'm not qualified to answer. Exxolon 20:22, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

He'd be a full Commander (his XO a LCdr); a Captain would command his Division; a senior Captain (referred to as "Commodore") or junior Rear Admiral his Squadron; & he's called "Captain" by his crew, as SO aboard (from Latin capo, head). And he commands the boat regardless who's aboard; this isn't "Star Trek". (He'd take direction from a SO, but the SO can't give orders to his crew, without him being relieved, first. In the RN, unless the SO is also qualified for sea command, a sea-qualifed ensign could ignore him...) Trekphiler 21:59, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Justify your answers

Is there a name for the justification I see in many movie credits ? There are two columns, the right of which is left justified, and the left of which is right justified, with a fixed amount of blank space between the two columns:

Bearded lady   Bea Arthur
        Pimp   Cedric the Entertainer
  Lady's man   Richard Simmons

It's not center justification, that would look like this:

  Bearded lady  Bea Arthur
Pimp  Cedric the Entertainer
Lady's man   Richard Simmons

StuRat 21:48, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

This is referred to in Robert Bringhurst's The Elements of Typographic Style but not named any better than the description you give: "lists of paired items ... are often best aligned against each other, the left column flush right and the right column flush left." You might say it's a sort of tabular alignment on a repeating element (such as in a list of numbers, aligning on the decimal). iames 23:24, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

OK, thanks, I guess there's just no easy way to describe it. StuRat 20:37, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I step up to the challenge with a neologism! Call it "gutter justification". —Tamfang 22:14, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Congrats, Tamfang. I think your neologism is (g)utterly justified. :) -- JackofOz 00:18, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, Tamfang. The Diocese of Richmond beat you to it. [2] It's the only instance Google found. —Nricardo 02:05, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I can add it to the collection of concepts I've reinvented. —Tamfang 22:26, 2 October 2007 (UTC)