Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2022 August 4

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August 4

French greeting or call for attention, sounds like /saje/

I'm trying to improve my understanding of spoken French by listening to French videos. In this episode of C'est pas sorcier, Sabine, in the Atacama desert, starts a video conversation with Jamy, in his laboratory, by saying "/saje/, Jamy". This happens twice, at 04:26 and 12:29. I have been unable to identify this word. It does not appear in the lists of French greetings I have found, and I haven't found any reasonable candidates by dictionary search. Can anyone help? --NorwegianBlue ^talk 14:07, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Ça y est ("that's it"). --Viennese Waltz 14:12, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

That's it, thank you! I found a good explanation of usage here, and it fits perfectly. --NorwegianBlue ^talk 14:21, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Un lama peut en cacher un autre !

A second question from the same episode of C'est pas sorcier. At 19:11, Jamy says: "Attention : Un lama peut en cacher un autre !", i.e. "One llama can hide another". This doesn't really make much sense in context, it is used to introduce an explanation of llama physiology.

Exactly the same frase is used in several web pages:

• [1] (about a llama called Jules)
• [2] (about AIDS treatment)
• [3] (about llama soft toys)
• [4] (first headline on page 3, about Dalai Lama)
• [5] (title of photo of llama near the end of the page).
• [6] (last sentence of article, about Serge Lama).

So it appears to be a well-known expression in French, and it seems that anything llama-related, including Serge and Dalai, can trigger it. What is the origin of this expression? Does it have any meaning? --NorwegianBlue ^talk 15:16, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

"Un(e) XXXX peut en cacher une autre" is a common enough French meme/saying/trope going back decades. Une femme peut en cacher une autre (1983 film), Un conte peut en cache une autre (French translation of Roald Dahl's Revolting Rhymes), Un homme peut en cache une autre (2007 French film), Un crime peut en cacher un autre, (French translation of Stranger than Fiction), Un Film peut en cacher un autre, a book about film making. It's probably a broader turn of phrase that gets used with any number of nouns, llama being just one of them. --Jayron32 15:34, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks! I searched for "peut en cacher un autre", and found this entry in the French wiktionary. The original expression is "Attention : Un train peut en cacher un autre !", "One train can hide another", from the warning given by the SNCF to urge caution when crossing the tracks. I'm still puzzled why the llama-version of the expression is used as the title of an article about AIDS treatment. --NorwegianBlue ^talk 16:05, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

I honestly couldn't tell you; perhaps the llama version has become a meme in France through some quirk. I'm American myself, just with some good Google-Fu and a passing knowledge of the French language. You'll probably need to hear from a native to get that part worked out. --Jayron32 16:16, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

The case of the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers peluche lama reversible is obviously not to be questioned, so I'll hazard that the AIDS treatment targetted public, third above: [3] (about AIDS treatment) are expected to be familiar with for example selected bits of the English vocabulary. Not necessarily Revolting Rhymes, but wikt:lamia might have done the trick. --Askedonty (talk) 15:03, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Hello! This is my first time answering a question at the Reference Desk, so apologies if I don't get it right first time. To preface, I can and do speak natural french every day to native french people, both in a personal and work capacity, and I will soon be moving to a French-speaking country, although I myself am not a native french speaker. As such, everything I say here is pure opinion. I have also asked some native-French friends whose advice I have included.

———

As you discovered and as others have said, the phrase comes from a warning that one train can hide another, i.e. pay attention and be aware that there may exist hidden dangers you are unaware of, however, in its figurative usage, it is quite often used to mean 'appearances can be deceiving'.

As an example from the French Wiktionary entry, "une maladie grave peut en effet se cacher derrière un symptôme bénin" — A serious illness can hide itself behind a mild symptom. You could use the phrase "Attention : un train peut en cacher un autre" here to mean that there are hidden dangers that are not immediately obvious and everything is not as it seems.

From the video you linked to, he says, "Attention : un lama peut en cacher un autre ! La famille est grande." — lit. "Careful: a llama can hide another. The family is big."

He most likely uses this expression as a device to grab the listeners attention — he wants the listeners to know that he has "hidden" information or advice they likely do not — before he begins to explain the different types of llama that exist, as a way of saying 'you don't have all the information', 'appearances can be deceiving — you may think there is only one type of llama, but one llama can hide another'.

It also has an almost joke-like, double-entendre. When taken literally, if there are many llamas (the family is big), one quite literally can hide another. The way he says the phrase suggests he was trying, at least a little, to be a bit funny, but of course this is purely my opinion after having listened to the clip.

As my native French friends also noted, 'lama' was (and possibly still is) "à la mode" in French culture, and so it is also possible he was taking advantage of his unique situation to make reference to a niche part of French culture, although I will say that neither of them could be sure that was the case.

Ultimately, there probably isn't any real way for us to find out, since we don't have the same cultural experiences and knowledge as he does — maybe it doesn't mean anything at all, or maybe only a select few people who have insider knowledge can understand it...

A very interesting question, I enjoyed researching it! I hope I've helped, either way, and especially if not, feel free to let me know :) rbstrachan (talk) 18:45, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, rbstrachan! Your answer was very helpful! --NorwegianBlue ^talk 19:40, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

The whole expression comes from railroad grade crossing warning signs in France, where they warn you not to cross the tracks right away after the train in front of you passes by and the way ahead looks clear, because there could be another train coming from the other direction, and the one that just passed you may be hiding that one from view. If you cross immediately after the train you see has passed, you risk getting crushed by the other one that you don't see. "Un train peut en cacher un autre"; not a joke, but a serious warning. Everything else is a spin-off from this. Mathglot (talk) 16:50, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

So it's basically the French equivalent of Mind the gap? --Jayron32 18:03, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, Mathglot, for explaining the concrete meaining in full detail! --NorwegianBlue ^talk 19:46, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

@Jayron32: It's basically the French equivalent of this: [7]. 2A00:23C5:C719:7201:D96A:3555:4022:9D37 (talk) 11:25, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

I meant as a meme or a trope, not as a literal translation. It appears that the phrase has become entrenched into the French culture in a similar way to the "Mind the gap" phrase has so become entrenched in the British culture. --Jayron32 11:53, 5 August 2022 (UTC)