Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2021 June 5
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June 5 edit
Japanese sandal terms edit
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![The caption, and the museum sign in the image, call these Wiktionary:わらじ "waraji". But other sources[1] insist that thong-style straw sandals are ぞうり, zōri, and that if the straps are covered in cotton, as these appear to be, they are fuku-zōri.](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/National_Museum_of_Ethnology%2C_Osaka_-_Sandals_for_Ama_divers_%28Pearl_divers%29_-_Shima%2C_Mie_-_Made_in_the_1930s.jpg/225px-National_Museum_of_Ethnology%2C_Osaka_-_Sandals_for_Ama_divers_%28Pearl_divers%29_-_Shima%2C_Mie_-_Made_in_the_1930s.jpg)
The caption, and the museum sign in the image, call these Wiktionary:わらじ "waraji". But other sources[1] insist that thong-style straw sandals are ぞうり, zōri, and that if the straps are covered in cotton, as these appear to be, they are fuku-zōri. -
!["The hanao is the brown part" says Wiktionary:はなお. But other sources, including the zōri article and a publication of the V&A,[1] suggest that the hanao is the white part](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Zori1.jpg/431px-Zori1.jpg)
"The hanao is the brown part" says Wiktionary:はなお. But other sources, including the zōri article and a publication of the V&A,[1] suggest that the hanao is the white part -
Fukagutsu: straw-woven, but not zōri -
Titled as zōri, and used as such on ja Wikipedia (you can see the separate stiched-on sole, which may be identifying) -
Pictoral instructions on how to make zōri (similar to waraji) in a Japanese living-history museum. Sign says they are zori (first three characters). Obviously no separate outsole is included.
![The caption, and the museum sign in the image, call these Wiktionary:わらじ "waraji". But other sources[1] insist that thong-style straw sandals are ぞうり, zōri, and that if the straps are covered in cotton, as these appear to be, they are fuku-zōri.](/wiki/File:National_Museum_of_Ethnology,_Osaka_-_Sandals_for_Ama_divers_(Pearl_divers)_-_Shima,_Mie_-_Made_in_the_1930s.jpg)
!["The hanao is the brown part" says Wiktionary:はなお. But other sources, including the zōri article and a publication of the V&A,[1] suggest that the hanao is the white part](/wiki/File:Zori1.jpg)
May I ask what exactly the defining distinction(s) between waraji and zōri would be? What is a hanao: short tween-toe loop, long vamp loop, or both? Are there terms for each of these loops, or other parts of the waraji? I've re-written the waraji article (reviews welcome), and it would be useful to know. Thanks! HLHJ (talk) 20:35, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
- The Japanese Wikipedia appears to use zōri in a more generic sense of a sandal with straps, while waraji is for footwear made of rice straw, possibly but not necessarily of a sandal type. The footwear in this image is described as 草鞋草履 (waraji zōri), "straw sandal". Hana+o literally means "nose strap", being the foremost of several straps. Also according to the Japanese Wikipedia, the hanao in a narrow sense is the short brown string between two toes, but in a broader sense refers to the whole thong ensemble, now even also used for Western-style sandals with a transverse strap. The semantic relationship between the terms hanao in the broader sense and zōri is not clear to me, but I have the impression that Japanese-style hanao in the broader sense of footwear are of the clog type, with two transverse ridges under a flat board. Caveat: my ability to understand Japanese is rather limited. --Lambiam 21:49, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you, Lambian. It seems fairly clear that clog-like geta also have hanao. If "hanao" has both a narrow and broad sense, then all the sources are reasonable (but Wiktionary might want to report on both senses). If "quickly made of plain rice straw, no outsole" overrides "thong sandal", and quick, plain-rice-straw thong sandals are waraji rather than zori, I should state that in the article. But "waraji zori" suggests that they are independent variables. So some sandals would be both? HLHJ (talk) 22:23, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
Found another source, a museum shot with a sign titled "Waraji and zōri". They don't seem to expect visitors to know the kanji. Can anyone read this sign? It's a bit blurry. HLHJ (talk) 23:38, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
Better source edit
OK, I seem to belatedly have found a solid-looking source for this. "Waraji sandals are made of woven straw. Long straw straps attached to the front pass through loops on the sides and heel, and are tied around the ankle to fasten the sole to the foot...The straw zori is an improved version of the waraji, and is said to be the ancestor of the beach sandal now worn around the world. It has a thong and an oval sole, both made of woven straw. The big and second toes grip the shaft of the thong."[2]
The more-reliable sources, Japanese and Brit, seem to go with this strap-type distinction. However, starting in the Edo there has also been a distinction in materials, as waraji became rare and stayed with the trad materials while zōri innovated wildly (from source). They are now made of elastomers, vinyl, plastics, etc.. So I think some people now call any straw sandal "waraji", and any sandal "zōri", but the experts don't. Just for certainty, I've only used illustrations of zōri as zōri if the uploader called them zōri and they have a thong, and accordingly for waraji. I hope this will keep me from excessively stupid error. HLHJ (talk) 02:34, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
- Transliterations. "Wara" (藁 literally means "straw". I even knew that; "wara-zōri" is a term for a straw slip-on.[2] Zōri (草履) literally means "grass-footwear", though obviously that is not the modern sense. So slip-on straw sandals are literally waraji, though this may not reflect usage. This could explain some of the commons uploads and the museum sign. HLHJ (talk)
References
- ^ a b Victoria and Albert Museum. Department of Textiles; Smith, A. D. Howell; Koop, Albert J. (Albert James) (1919). Guide to the Japanese textiles. Harold B. Lee Library. London : Printed under the authority of H. M. Stationery Off.
The simplest form of outdoor footwear is the waraji, a sandal of coarse rice-straw, some what shorter than the foot, to which it is firmly tied by means of two straw laces (often covered with white paper). These laces issue from between the first and second toes and pass in turn through a couple of loops at each side, up over the foot, through the loop which forms a heel-piece, and back again to be tied over the instep. The waraji are used by men for energetic and long-continued work, travelling, etc. Their length of life is only about twenty-four hours, but they are very cheap (about a farthing a pair) and supplies of them are carried by travellers and thrown away when worn out...
(note the work is in the public domain, therefore the text is not copyright)
For ordinary use, such as leisurely walking on hard, dry ground, the zōri is employed. This is a sandal of fine rice-straw matting and normally has no separate sole. But varieties of it, made of woven rushes of various kinds or of bamboo-sheath, are commonly soled with coiled hemp-rope (asaura-zōri), with wistaria-stems, (fujiura-zōri), or with wood in lateral sections (zōri-geta or itatsuke-zōri). A superior variety, known as setta, has a raw-hide sole with (sic) iron heel-piece.
The zōri is kept on by means of two thick soft cords (hanao) of twisted cotton or paper, covered with leather or cloth, issuing from each side near the heel and uniting with a short, thinner piece which passes between, and is gripped by, the first and second toes. Rush zōri with very thick tapering cords of straw-rope covered with white paper or cotton are known as fuku-zōri. In modern times the hanao do not come so far back as in former days; the sandal itself is also a little shorter, instead of being slightly longer, than the foot - ^ a b Jun-ichi, Ishikawa, ed. (June 15, 2002). "Traditional Footwear". Nipponia. No.21. Tokyo Inshokan Printing Co., Ltd. Retrieved 8 June 2021.
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What does "shut up, Beavis" mean? edit
Context: In Wikipedia:Why Wikipedia is not so great, the following quote appears: "hence articles like fuck which are essentially dictionaryshut up, Beavis articles". I'm particularly confused by the fact that this links to throat-clear; Beavis definitely exists and there are passages online about telling him to shut up, but I don't see the connection. Could someone explain what it means in context? (I think this might be an obscure cultural reference, but I wouldn't know about it.) Duckmather (talk) 21:13, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
- Dictionary starts with dick, the sort of thing that would set Beavis off. DuncanHill (talk) 21:45, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
- "Throat-clear" might also allude to how those two boneheads sound when they're snickering over something they see as provocative. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:40, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
- It was added here by User:Brogo13 who was subsequently banned as a sockpuppet. So in this context it probably means Brogo13 was thinking "heh heh, dick" like Beavis would, and then Butt-Head would tell him to shut up. Adam Bishop (talk) 14:21, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for the reply! (Also, I can't unsee it now.) I feel much clearer about what it means in context. Duckmather (talk) 16:45, 9 June 2021 (UTC)