Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2021 January 10

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January 10

Herrariad'r Siedligsfäscht

When I was in Hohenems in July 2019, I saw some kind of private party at a restaurant. There was a sign saying "Herrariad'r Siedligsfäscht" at the party. What does that mean? JIP | Talk 16:27, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

The standard German version of it would be Herrenrieder Siedlungsfest 'Herrenried town fest'. Herrenried is a neighborhood of Hohenems, it's mentioned in Hohenems#Geography. "Herrariad'r Siedligsfäscht" has all hallmarks of Alemannic German: [iɐ̯] where Standard German has [iː], [-ʃt] (Standard German [-st]) and -ig (Standard German -ung). –Austronesier (talk) 16:41, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Must be where the Houyhnhnms come from. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:49, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

At least in Germany, Siedlung usually rather means something like "housing estate" (cf. Siedlungen der Berliner Moderne vs. Berlin Modernism Housing Estates). Not sure if the word is used differently in Austria. --147.142.218.189 (talk) 10:11, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

"Son" as a form of address

As a form of address of an elder person towards an unfamiliar younger man, is "son" an Americanism or used outside the United States as well (UK, Australia may be)? For me, this usually brings to mind films when a somewhat angry old American asks or warns a young person ("Son, you better watch yourself", etc). 212.180.235.46 (talk) 17:15, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

It's common in the UK, and not just towards younger people. It's often used man-to-man in a supervisory context; for example a railway station assistant might well call me "son" if I ask him for directions, and I'm 72.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 17:47, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

A similar usage exists in Australia. HiLo48 (talk) 17:58, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

A well-known (in Australia) song by The Cruel Sea (band) has the lines "Better get a lawyer son/ You better get a good one" Doug butler (talk) 21:33, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

In the UK, "go on my son!" is a general term of encouragement from one male to another, particularly in football (soccer), immortalised in the song "Nice one Cyril, nice one son". No kinship or age differential is implied. Alansplodge (talk) 20:13, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

I think the implication is concern for another's wellbeing. Freddie Roach (boxing), between rounds, speaking to Manny Pacquiao, calls him "son". Bus stop (talk) 20:16, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

• Wouldn't it be more natural to call you grandpa? --Bumptump (talk) 14:23, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

• "Grandpa" carries its own implications, age for instance. "Hey, you petrified dinosaur...I mean grandpa." Bus stop (talk) 16:29, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Here's a well-known quote from Paul Keating in 1984, seven years before he became Prime Minister of Australia:

• "Oh, I know who you are, I know all about you, son. I've had a swab done on you".

He was speaking to Greg Sheridan. who had just introduced himself to Keating at an ALP conference. [1] -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:00, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

I think the use of the word son always conveys familiarity with the person being called son. It could be that the person being called son is being encountered for the first time, in which case the familiarity is based on characteristics recognized, understood, and at least to some limited degree approved of. So, if a person is recognized as a countryman, that might constitute sufficient recognition to warrant the use of the word son. I say this because an editor above points out that as a 72 year old they are called "son" at a railway station by a presumably younger person. Bus stop (talk) 09:18, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

I've only encountered it in movies and TV shows. I don't think anyone (including my own father) has ever addressed me as "son" in the vocative in my life. —Mahāgaja · talk 09:31, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

I have heard fathers address sons as "son". In this context it seems to have an element of sternness as if saying you must obey me, son. Bus stop (talk) 09:41, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

It's like calling someone dear or lassie. It's highly idiomatic and can be condescending or avuncular, and usage will vary by region and other factors. It's probably more common in the southern United States. It connotes that the speaker is of higher age or status, or has authority over the other person. It's one of those terms that non-native speakers of English should avoid. Personally I would never use the expression. TFD (talk) 10:01, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Never say never. Bus stop (talk) 10:25, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

"had a swab done on you"

And what does that mean in this context? --174.95.161.129 (talk) 05:11, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm guessing it came from horseracing language of that era and earlier. It referred to the drug testing of a horse where skulduggery in its "medications" was suspected. HiLo48 (talk) 05:28, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Could be a reference to Buccal swab. Or Saliva Swabs. I'm not sure how widely known such "swab" techniques were in 1984. Bus stop (talk) 09:21, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

I was nursing in the UK in 1972 and we regularly took swabs from infect wounds for culture of the organism and how sensitive it was to available antibiotics, usually called C & S, so the technology was available. Richard Avery (talk) 14:16, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

I would guess that the word had a particular frisson at its time of use. Perhaps there was buzz in the air about the newfangled DNA analysis thingy. Bus stop (talk) 16:31, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

The term is used in the modern medical sense in an article in the October 2, 1897 issue of The Lancet: On March 6th a “swab” taken from his throat was examined bacteriologically ...^[2] Since the term is not further explained, it must have already been common at the time in the medical profession, but the scare quotes show that the term was still a bit slangy in this sense. In earlier medical use, the term refers to an instrument, a mini mop, used for swiping a patient's throat clear or for applying soothing medication, not for the purpose of swiping material up for examination.  --Lambiam 12:18, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

A review of the book in which Sheridan relates this anecdote continues: "Greg Sheridan has done a swab on himself but it's diagnostically accurate and it will fascinate all comers.^[3] The (Australian) literary critic who penned the review interpreted the term as a diagnostic procedure.  --Lambiam