Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2015 September 24

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September 24

Are there volunteer editors who edit novels for writers who can't afford professional services?

Are there volunteer editors who edit novels for writers who can't afford professional edit services? — Preceding unsigned comment added by BirdieTea (talk • contribs)

Perhaps, but no list available and not Wikipedia's core function. Explore writing circles, where one offers critique to others in exchange for same. -- Paulscrawl (talk) 23:10, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Editing a novel is a professional service; while there are accountants, doctors and lawyers who provide their professional services for free, they are rare and usually devoted their pro bono time to what they consider the worthiest of causes. Do you expect grocers, plumbers and booksellers to give away their products and services? --Orange Mike | Talk 23:14, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

What we certainly don't expect is people giving away unhelpful comments for free. Wikipedia:Reference desk/Guidelines. Ssscienccce (talk) 00:32, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Beta reader groups might be a first step? http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/50920-beta-reader-group Ssscienccce (talk) 01:25, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Lots of volunteer editing goes on in the fanfiction world [1], and also in the erotica genre. SemanticMantis (talk) 15:35, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

• We had this same question about a year ago. My remembrance is basically that you'll get what you pay for. A loved one or someone credited as a collaborator might be willing to do such potentially arduous work for free. You can serach the archives to get the earlier answers. μηδείς (talk) 16:32, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

(OR): I am a retired writer who has volunteered to edit things (but nothing more substantial than a thesis), so I suspect those who voluntarily edit novels exist. How to find someone, I do not know.    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 07:12, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Is this considered epenthesis?

I have noticed that the native (kun'yomi) Japanese readings of some words/phrases (comprised of kanji) contain a <no> character that doesn't correspond to any of the kanji - for example, 井上 is comprised of <I> and <ue>, but it gets read as <Inoue>; 都城 is comprised of <Miyako> and <jō>, but gets read as <Miyakonojō>. Would it be accurate to refer to this insertion of <no> as epenthesis, or is there another name for this? 155.229.41.46 (talk) 22:17, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Epenthesis "means the addition of one or more sounds to a word, especially to the interior of a word" (emphasis added). Article references should answer question with reliable sources (but does not); perhaps rather than getting a one-off opinion, article could be improved with sources cited here? -- Paulscrawl (talk) 22:54, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Epenthesis is a diachronic phonological process, one of the many ways in which pronunciation can change over time. Unless there is evidence that the possessive 'no' was once not pronounced in these names and now is, I would not regard this as epenthesis but simply as one of the oddities of Japanese orthography - in fact, one of the remnants of kanbun. --ColinFine (talk) 23:28, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

• I have no knowledge of the Japanese, but if an /n/ is missing after a final vowel, but shows up internally in a longer form, it is often not epenthesis, but retention of an original consonant that was lost word finally. For example, the names Nero and Plato both come from stems in -n. In Latin, the Emperor's name in the nominative was Nero and the genitive ending was -is, but instead of Nerois or Neris for "Nero's" you find the Latin Neronis. source. Compare also the reëmergence of the /n/ in Plato vs Platonic. μηδείς (talk) 16:27, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

The Russian version of Plato is Platon. While not exactly common there, it's still a somewhat more common given name than Plato is in other Western countries (I don't know about Greece). -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 18:48, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

The original Greek is Plátōn but the Latin form was nativized to Plato/Platonis in analogy with Nero/Neronis. Spanish and Italian use the forms Nerón and Nerone, given that most nouns in modern Romance developed from the oblique case form of the Latin word, not the nominative.

This is nothing like European inflection or sound change. The no is a possessive particle - a separate word. (I could imagine a theory which treated it as an inflectional suffix, but I have never encountered one). The issue here is whether the particle is present in the phrase which underlies the name, and whether it is written. I don't know about these cases, where the no is within one (element of) a name. But contrast the following:

"In the case of persons living before about 1200 it is customary in speaking (but not in writing) Japanese to insert the grammatical particle no ... between the two main portions of a Japanese name." - Miller, Roy Andrew (1980). The Japanese Language. Tuttle. p. xii.

That applies to the full name (family + personal) which is a different case from that being asked about, but is very much parallel to it. (Miller not mention that in modern names, no is neither written nor spoken).

In any case, I am sure that this is a question of orthography, not of phonology or grammar. --ColinFine (talk) 11:24, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Actually, this reminds me of whether to can him Beethoven or van Beethoven.

Also, ColinFine the no genitive is indeed related by some right wing extremists like Joseph Greenberg to the -n genintive found in words like Finnish minun, and Mongolian минийх "mine" and the English golden, "of gold". μηδείς (talk) 01:16, 29 September 2015 (UTC)