Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2010 April 1

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April 1

Desert planet in Japanese

What is "desert planet" in Japanese? I know Kasei is Mars in Japanese: is that its meaning as well? Desert planet? Or is it something else? Thanks in advance. Peter Greenwell (talk) 03:22, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

It's "砂漠の惑星"/sabaku no wakusei. Kasei is 火星 in kanji and 火 is fire and 星 is star. Oda Mari (talk) 04:13, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. Peter Greenwell (talk) 06:56, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I'll add in passing that all five Chinese elements are assigned to planets: Mercury 水星 'water star', Venus 金星 'metal star', Jupiter 木星 'wood star', Saturn 土星 'earth star'. —Tamfang (talk) 07:42, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Holmes, homes

Are they pronounced alike in all parts of the English-speaking world? All comments are appreciated. --Omidinist (talk) 05:25, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

No. I (General American) pronounce the L. rʨanaɢ (talk) 05:38, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Here in Detroit, we also pronounce the "L", but, judging from the rest of the responses, we Americans are about the only ones who make the effort. StuRat (talk) 17:44, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm British and I don't pronounce the L. I know I should but I can't be bothered. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 05:49, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Lazy Brits! rʨanaɢ (talk) 06:10, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't pronounce the L in Holmes...I don't think I pronounce it in Swedish words either, like Stockholm. (I'm Canadian.) Adam Bishop (talk) 06:16, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Even for people who don't pronounce the l, the vowels are often different. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi]} 06:51, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I notice that Michael Howard seems to be trying to pronounce the L even in words that haven't got one. That's what a Welsh Romanian Cambridge accent does for you, I guess. 213.122.49.103 (talk) 06:53, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

As an Australian, I don't pronounce the L either. Peter Greenwell (talk) 06:55, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I pronounce the L, but I don't pronounce the M. +Angr 09:04, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I would say that I hint at the "L" in "Holmes" - it doesn't sound the same as "homes" but I don't fully pronounce the "L" either. Many people hereabouts (London) make it sound the same as "homes" though. Alansplodge (talk) 09:10, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I pronounce Sherlock Holmes' surname identically to "homes" /həʊmz/, but when I encounter anybody else with the name "Holme" or "Holmes" I say something like /hɒʊm(z)/, with a vocalised 'l' and a different vowel. --ColinFine (talk) 10:46, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I speak RP and I don't pronounce the <l> in "Holmes." I co-articulate the <l> and the <m> in "realms," though, I think. --Kjoonlee 14:18, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Check my signature. When asked, I always tell people that my surname is pronounced "homes". As far as I'm concerned, there is not even a hint of the l sound. --Phil Holmes (talk) 17:32, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Right on, Phil. I've never heard anyone pronounce the l either. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 18:24, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Pronouncing the L is fairly common in the US. However, the TV show called House implicitly acknowledges that many do not pronounce it, as it's a play on Ho[l]mes. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:22, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

There are those who dispute this connection, arguing that a House is not a Holmes. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:52, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Just another data point, not that this adds much to the discussion. I was born in 1978 and raised in New York City and only know the word as /howmz/. Msh210 on a public computer (talk) 22:52, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

The larger woman

In women's fashion, it's quite common to hear euphemistic phrases like "ladies with a fuller figure" or "these blouses are designed with the larger woman in mind". Why euphemistic? Because they're using the comparative form of the adjectives in a way that's designed to downplay what they're talking about, which is anything from having a naturally big frame all the way to obesity. To refer to such a woman as "large" seems to be too blunt; but calling her "larger", which is even bigger than just "large", paradoxically seems to soften it somewhat. Is this what's going on here? How does the brain know not to treat the comparative as a comparative, and to discount the surface meaning? Or is it that the comparison is between a woman of unspecified or average size and a larger one; the second-named person would be comparatively "larger", but still not necessarily "large" in absolute terms? Except the message that comes through is that these women are large, just not necessarily obese. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 08:43, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

There are lots of instances in which a comparative adjective sounds smaller than its positive counterpart, not just body size. We speak of "older people" to avoid calling them "old people", for example. In some languages like German and Latin, the comparative form of an adjective is regularly used to mean "rather X", "X-ish" (so in German größere Gewässer can mean "largish bodies of water", implying bodies of water not really large enough to be called große Gewässer). The comparative can also be used to mean "more nearly X", i.e. "closer to attaining X-hood but not there yet": if a schoolchild writes an essay and gets a grade of 40/100 on it, and is told to rewrite it, and gets 60/100 on the second attempt, the second attempt is better but still not good. Likewise, where the U.S. Constitution speaks of "a more perfect union", it doesn't mean the union is already perfect and is going to get even more perfect (which would be impossible given the definition of perfect); it simply means "a more nearly perfect union", "a union closer to perfection". +Angr 09:17, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

"Fuller than average", "Larger than average", are what's implied. "Large", or "Obese" or (goddess forbid) "Fat" are not nice. A large woman knows she's large. To counter such, you have Big beautiful woman or plus-size woman or the term used by Lane Bryant, "Real woman". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 09:57, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Then there's voluptuous and the -esque words, like statuesque and Rubenesque. StuRat (talk) 23:00, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, those are good positive terms. There's also zaftig, which is a little more obscure. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:05, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank you all, but particuarly to Angr for helping me see the bigger picture, something I'm always interested in. (Or is that the "larger picture"? :) -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 04:55, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

WHICH ONE

1. You are needed to the kingdom.
2. You are needed by the kingdom

Which one of the above two forms of passive forms is suggested for the active form : " The kingdom needs you " Kasiraoj (talk) 17:10, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Although this almost sounds like homework, #2 is correct. #1 doesn't make sense. -- Flyguy649 ^talk 17:22, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

This has already been answered above.—Emil J. 17:24, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I didn't notice that. I'm glad my response only took 25 seconds or so... -- Flyguy649 ^talk 17:29, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

More interestingly, does simple "passivization" in English ever not use 'by'? —Tamfang (talk) 03:26, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Has the answer been given to you? :P No such user (talk) 14:30, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Scientific writing in journals (at least bioscience) is one place where the passive voice is preferred. In such writing you will see, "the temperature was observed to increase..." Perhaps the OP saw something like that, which led to the question. Of course the phrase "by us" is implied. -- Flyguy649 ^talk 16:04, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

No such user, "you" in your example is not the subject of the active form, so your example doesn't show anything. Compare: has the answer been given to you by the teacher? rʨanaɢ (talk) 16:12, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Yep, I know... It was a lame attempt at humor... I should know better. No such user (talk) 07:15, 5 April 2010 (UTC)