Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 March 21

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March 21

What does Mac mean in a surname?

What is the significance of "Mac" before a surname in many Irish, Scotch family names? Examples are MacSweeney, MacNeal, MacDougal, MacTavish, etc. I am particularly interested in how this applies to the name MacSweeney.MogulK 02:43, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

"Mac" = son of. All it indicates is that the original holder of the name was named for his father (so that MacSweeney = son of Sweeney). - Nunh-huh 02:47, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

The Irish form, BTW, is "Mc". The feminine form (used for women in Gaelic) of "Mac" is "Nic". The Jade Knight 03:16, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

The Irish form is "Mac", though it is often anglicized to "Mc". There are more details at the link previously provided. - Nunh-huh 04:02, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Whaddya know. The Jade Knight 04:47, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I note you are specifically interested in the name MacSweeny, MogulK. In that case you have a choice between a Scottish and Irish Gaelic provenance. In Scottish Gaelic it is properly Mac Suibhe or 'son of Sweyn'. Sweyn was one of the Viking-Gaelic Lords of Galloway in south-west Scotland. The MacSweens or MacSweeneys also claim descent from the high kings of Ireland, and are of the same lineage as the MacDonald, Lords of the Isles. The original centre of the clan's power was Castle Sween in Argyllshire on the west coast of Scotland. You will find some further details in the page on Clan Sweeney. The Irish MacSweeneys trace their origin to the Naill of the Nine Hostages, a fifth century high king of Ireland. The family was originally based in northern Donegal, at Doe Castle near Creeslough. Clio the Muse 09:18, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Of course the Irish also have O' meaning the same as Mac I believe. (as in O'Reilly, O'Driscoll etc).

Refrigerators

Where does the "d" come from in the abbreviated form of the word "refrigerator", fridge? The dictionary on my computer, based on the Oxford dictionary, says that it probably influenced by the Frigidaire company. But the "d" would have to be moved even within that word. Dismas|^(talk) 16:31, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

No reference, but if you wanted to approximate (!) an imitation of the first syllable of frigidaire, frig or frige would probably be misleading spellings. So, we might have just borrowed the old word fridge's spelling. ---Sluzzelin talk 16:51, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps it's written like that so that the "g" is surely read as a soft g. – b_jonas 20:01, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Compare the spelling of kludge, probably derived from kluge.  --Lambiam^Talk 20:58, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

From our article Frigidaire: "Frigidaire was founded as the Guardian Frigerator Company". Fridge gives a fair indication /frɪdʒ/ of the way the first syllable of Frigerator is pronounced.  --Lambiam^Talk 21:18, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

It's not an unreasonable spelling of the j sound, given acknowledge (although privilege would beg to differ - such is the power of privilege).  :) JackofOz 22:49, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I've always figured that it was due to a pattern of usage, as others here have suggested. Ridge, Bridge, and so on. Frige would seem strange. Slang and contractions often inherit common spelling patterns. Adrian M. H. 23:02, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm with Adrian on this one. The Jade Knight 21:45, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Some forms of abbreviation usually begin in writing (like acronyms and initialisms; people still disagree over whether FAQ is pronounced "fack" or "eff-ay-cue"). However, clippings like fridge normally begin in speech. Only after a clipping has been coined does the question of how to spell it arise. It is useful if its spelling mirrors that of its parent word, but not essential; sometimes a more "regular" spelling, ignoring the parent word's spelling, may suit better. Thus [ˈbɪznəs]→ [bɪz] gives business→biz; "bus" would be an impossible spelling. Also facsimile→fax, perhaps as facs might look like a plural. (My pet peeve is "mic" rather than "mike" for microphone: okay on a mixing desk; but in a concert review, it's just taking the mic.) While veg and Reg do spell clippings of vegetable and Reginald, frig was probably precluded by the pre-existing sense of masturbation. (1930s ad copy: "Have a frig in your kitchen!") jnestorius^(talk) 00:06, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Very possibly :) JackofOz 07:44, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I would reverse the question, and ask why there isn't a "d" in refrigerator, or why it isn't spelled with a "j" instead of a "g". After all, the root word , "frigid", is pronounced "frid-jid" or "frij-id" not "frig-id", isn't it ? StuRat 02:05, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

(Just being mischievous here). Do you pronounce your user name to rhyme with "turret"? If not, why isn't it spelled "StooRat" (or "StewRat")?  :) JackofOz 02:50, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I believe Stew-, Stoo-, and Stu- are all pronounced the same, while fridg- and frig- normally wouldn't be. That's the friggin' difference (or should I say fridgin' difference ?). StuRat 16:44, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh noes!

Does anyone know where the current fashion of saying "oh noes!" instead of "oh no!" came from? JIP | Talk 18:11, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Who says this? I've never heard it before and I'd like to think I haven't been living under a rock... though I am in my basement... Dismas|^(talk) 18:13, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I've never heard it said aloud, but it's on the Internet practically everywhere. Just read any Internet forum. It even made its way to the Finnish Wikipedia: archived delete discussion for an early web comic. JIP | Talk 18:28, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Öh nöes! Clarityfiend 19:17, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

• I think it might have come from the mis-spelling thing that comes from hurried and careless typing."teh" for "the" etc."S" is near "E" and could be hit when typing "no" quickly.People now say "tealdeer" and "zomg" aloud after seeing it typed.hotclaws**== 09:41, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

• "tealdeer"? 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 13:38, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

• "Tealdeer" is "too long,did'nt read" abreviated to "tl;dr" often posted in response to long,rambling posts.hotclaws**== 07:42, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I always assumed "oh noes" predated the Internet and was some kind of parody of melodrama. I always imagine it being uttered with a New York/New Jersey accent. Bhumiya (said/done) 20:47, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, I thought it might have originated from some children's show or book, but there's no evidence for that either. Google Groups finds the first instances in 2000 and 2001, with increasing usage through 2002 and 2003, and early usage usually occurs together with other playful misspellings. Hotclaws may be right that the origin is a misspelling, but it is such a fun little phrase that it may have been invented multiple times. I didn't find any discussion of the expression itself on usenet. 84.239.133.38 09:05, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

My Brother met a deaf girl over Spring Break. 07 I swear he started this and "soos goods" on his my-space page.

• Was re-playing Final Fantasy XII (2006) just now, and one of the moogles says "Oh noes! I was shopping and I missed the flight for Rabanastre, kupo!

Suppose I'll have to wait." (Location: Bhujerban)

The earliest reference I know of is in the final episode of the BBC's fourth season of The Good Life. Jerry is trying to find out dirt about a competitor to his promotion as Managing Director. Rumour says that his competition for the role has a plastic "nose", but to his dismay at an advantage Jerry is upset that this rumour turns out to be just a rumour. Tom expresses his humour by saying "Oh-Nose!". Episode aired on 22nd May 1977.

Etymology of stanza

What's the etymology of the word 'stanza'? I know it is Italian for 'room'but how did it become to be used as a group of lines in a poem? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.12.146.31 (talk • contribs) 20:56, March 21, 2007 (UTC).

According to the Online Etymology Dictionary:[1]

stanza: "group of rhymed verse lines," 1588, from It. stanza "verse of a poem," originally "standing, stopping place," from V.L. *stantia "a stanza of verse," so called from the stop at the end of it, from L. stans (gen. stantis), prp. of stare "to stand" (see stet).

 --Lambiam^Talk 21:07, 21 March 2007 (UTC)