Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 January 5

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January 5

Plurals

My friends and I were discussing tonight what the plural of 'hard on' was. We could not decide. What is it?

Normally "Hard-ons", just like "Wannabes" and "Has-beens". AnonMoos 02:37, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Technically, "hards-on" would probably be the most correct, but no one would actually use it. Kinda like "Whoppers Junior", I suppose. --Maxamegalon2000 21:18, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

What's your logic there? How I see it, "hard" is an adjective modifing "on" (what kind of 'on'? A 'hard' one). However, as I understand it, hyphenated words are treated as one word, so the 's' would come at the end anyways.--SeizureDog 06:13, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

And would the group noun be a "stiffy" of hard-ons?(hotclaws**== 16:28, 7 January 2007 (UTC))

More likely a sausagefest of hards-on. Black Carrot 17:56, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

proper usage of capital letters again

[Please put replies to a previous question under that question's heading. I've gone ahead and moved your comment for you. Thanks!] -Elmer Clark 10:26, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Audio dictionary of Latin words?

I am currently studying biology and taxonomy on Wikipedia. I am having trouble verbally pronouncing a lot of the Latin root words. I am looking for a data base of recorded words to listen to and speak along with. I need to verbally hear the correct pronunciations. Words like: Eukaryota, Chordata, Cricetidae, Myomorpha, Animalia, etc. Does anyone know if there is such a place? Thank you for your help. Davewcoon 01/04/07

If your goal is to learn to speak correctly on these topics in English, then you should be aware that all of these Latin/Modern Latin terms have conventional English pronunciations that differ from the ancient pronunciation of Latin. To take a quick example from Google, the pronunciation of Animalia given here is the correct one in English. Likewise, for example, in "Cricetidae" the second c should be prounounced s and the ending ae should be pronounced ee (as in keep). (There has been a general slide away from traditional English pronunciations; for example, take the range of pronunciations you'll hear of "alumnae." However, in my experience, scientists and physicians, because they have actually heard the previous generation use these words in their active vocabulary, have remarkably conservative pronunciations of terms like these. So I'd look for a reference that clearly and prescriptively indicates the traditional pronunciations. Most medical dictionaries I've seen pass this test, but from Amazon's "look inside" the Penguin/Oxford Dictionaries of Biology don't even give pronunciations!) Wareh 04:55, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

You might try using this reference until something better comes along. Wareh 05:06, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Year reference written in Korean

Dear Sir/s Madam/s

I need help to write the years 1992, 1993 and 1994 in Korean. Please can someone give these years in Korean numerals.

Kind regards

Ferdi van Greuning South Africa —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 41.243.143.3 (talk) 11:10, 5 January 2007 (UTC).

For the year? Sino-Korean cardinals are used in dates for the year. Korean numerals has some details. 1992 would be 1992년 (Hangul: 천구백구십이년), 1993 would be 1993년 (천구백구십삼년), and 1994 would be 1994년 (천구백구십사년). --Kjoonlee 16:03, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

However, depending on context, '-년' can be omitted. --Kjoonlee 16:05, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

German for New Year

Why, when the German for the New Year is das Neujahr, do Germans wish each other a Frohes neues Jahr? Why not simply Frohes Neujahr? --Richardrj ^{talk email} 14:10, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

It's a distinction between "newyear" and "new year". The same distinction applies to Swedish, btw. "Nyår" vs "Gott nytt år". I think "Neujahr" only refers to the first day, while "Neues jahr" refers to the whole year, although I can't swear on it. 惑乱 分からん 15:15, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

You could, because it's right ;) And while I'm at it: Colloquially, "Frohes neues Jahr" is often abbreviated to "Frohes neues". --Dapeteばか 18:48, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Romanician

Is there such a word as "Romanician" or "Romanitian"? The way I found it, it is used to mean that of a Roman citizen. However I can not seem to find the word in actual use. Is there something like this in Latin or two words combined (resembling this) that would have this meaning? Perhaps with 10 letters? I see the word Romanization looks close to me. Perhaps this of "Romanician/Romanitian" came from Romanization. Where are examples where "Romanician" or "Romanitian" are actually used in a sentence?--Doug 16:30, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

The word "Romanization" is used for alphabets, I don't think it's used in the sense "making something more Roman"... 惑乱 分からん 17:51, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Looking for the exact word of "Romanician" or "Romanitian". Is there such a word in Latin or Italian (Rome word)? --Doug 20:50, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I found no evidence of such a word in Latin. "Roman Citizen" would be "Civis Romanus". However, I did find something on a website after Googling those words:

"I reject the options presented to me in this poll. The groupings "Germanic" and "Romanician" are both social constructs invented to ease categorizations and generalizations of people. They ignore the reality that culture is ever-changing, and that traditions vary even between neighbours."

Hope this helps.CCLemon-安部さん万歳！ 07:22, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Word "Holy" definition

What would be a further definition for the word "holy" other than the usual definitions of dedicated or devoted to God and the church or religion. --Doug 17:57, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

• Inspiring fear, as in "a holy terror." Deltabeignet 18:49, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! Is there any other definitions for the word "Holy"? --Doug 23:29, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

It can be used metaphorically to refer to anything undertaken with great seriousness or solemnity - you can say you have "made a holy promise to do something" without actually having to swear on a Bible. Grutness...wha? 00:15, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Can it also be something "special" or something "set aside for a special purpose"? (i.e. the holy grounds, Holy See) --Doug ^talk 19:10, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

book report

how do you write a good book report on "Emma",by Jane Austen? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.102.217.142 (talk) 19:44, 5 January 2007 (UTC).

I assume you have read the novel? You might also have a look at the articles on Jane Austen and Emma. To give you a small kick start, focus on Emma the intelligent but rather spoiled match-maker, who thinks she understands eveyone elses feelings, but ends up even misunderstanding her own. She discovers love and enlightenment at the same time! Clio the Muse 23:21, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Define: Heximeters

It is said that Francesco Petrarch wrote a poem called "Africa" written in hexameters. Even after looking at the definition I don't understand what this means exactly. Could someone break this down a little simplier for an old man. Also as far as I can see this is a book (found at the library). So why is it called a "poem"? Awful big poem! --Doug 20:38, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

A poem is anything written in verse, as opposed to prose; whether a piece of literature is a poem or not, has nothing to do with its length. A poem may by two lines or twelve volumes long. Hexameter is a certain kind of meter, a specific pattern of syllables and stresses which determines the poem's rhythm. Kpalion 23:42, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I take the following example from the article Dactyl (poetry):

"An example of dactylic meter is the first line of Henry Wadsworth Longfellow's poem Evangeline, which is in dactylic hexameter:

This is the / forest prim- / eval. The / murmuring / pines and the / hemlocks,

The first five feet of the line are dactyls; the sixth a trochee."

A hexameter is simply a rhythm that has six parts, or feet, per line. The most common kind of hexameter is the dactylic hexameter, which is dominated by the dactyl, which is made up of three syllables: a long or stressed syllable followed by two short or unstressed syllables, as in the example above. Marco polo 02:58, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Now I get it; six parts per line. The "book" (a.k.a. 'poem') of Petrarch's Africa was written this way. Thanks again. --Doug ^talk 19:17, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Petrarch spoke which languages?

Francesco Petrarch wrote exclusively in the Latin Vulgate. So exactly what is the difference between just plain everyday Latin and the Latin Vulgate? What other languages did Petrarch speak and write in? I understand he did not write in Greek; but obtained help of a friend when necessary. Which friend(s)? Did Petrarch know English of the time (i.e. Middle English)? --Doug 20:46, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

The difference lies mainly in grammar and vocabulary, see Vulgar Latin. 惑乱 分からん 01:13, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Petrarch would not have written Vulgar Latin, which was never a written language and which had ceased to exist by Petrarch's day, having mutated into an early form of Italian and other Romance languages. Instead, Petrarch wrote in Medieval Latin, which was based partly on the Vulgate. He also wrote in a late medieval form of Italian. Since he was born in Tuscany to a Tuscan family and spent his early years in Tuscany, he would have spoken the Tuscan dialect. Partly because Petrarch and Dante Alighieri, another Tuscan, were the first two Italian authors to use Italian, rather than Latin, as a literary language, the Tuscan dialect became the basis for standard modern Italian. Petrarch also spent much of his youth and part of his adulthood in Avignon and Montpellier. Although he traveled to Avignon with his parents and was connected to the largely Italian-speaking Roman Curia there, he probably picked up some of the local Provençal dialect of Occitan. A closely related Occitan dialect was spoken in Montpellier, where he studied, but the language of academic discourse would have been Medieval Latin. I do not have any sources to back me up, but I think that it is extremely unlikely that Petrarch would have spoken Middle English. He never traveled to England, which was the only place that language was spoken in his day. In Petrarch's day, Middle English was neither a language of much literary production nor a language of scholarship, and so he would have had no reason to learn it. As a scholar, he probably had some knowledge of ancient Greek, even if he was not confident enough of his Greek to write in Greek. Marco polo 02:29, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

• Not even enough to read in Greek, to his great frustration:

Although Petrarch was primarily a student of the Latin classics, he made a redoubtable effort to learn ancient Greek so that he could study the Greek classics in their original language instead of Latin translations. However obtaining the necessary instruction was almost impossible in his time. Through great dint of effort he did manage to secure the efforts of a Greek monk visiting Avignon for talks with the Pope, but this monk proved to be a poor teacher, although a willing one, and Petrarch learned no useable Greek. His method of teaching involved taking Plato and translating it bit by bit into Latin, with the idea that Petrarch would thus grasp the mechanics of the language and be able to read it. However flawed its approach and intended results might have been, this endeavor did provide him with a serviceable translation of Plato into Latin in the process. And in spite of the failure of his efforts to learn Greek, Petrarch did collect a number of Greek books in hopes that one day he would be able to read them in the original. Many times he would stare at them in longing for the day when he would be able to find a suitable tutor in the language and be able to fathom the mysteries hidden within a language that would remain shut to him for all his days. In a letter to Nicholas Sygeros, the Byzantine envoy to the Papal Court, he talks about his copy of Plato and his appreciation of the man's works, combined with his regret at not being able to read the language. Yet he still continued to hope that one day he would be able to, noting that Cato learned a substantial amount of Greek at an advanced age.[1]

--jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 16:12, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks all for these great answers as to what Petrarch wrote and spoke. --Doug 16:37, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Augusta, Maine

I cannot find anything on my city "Augusta ,Maine" anywhere I've Googled it and I can't find enything please help!—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.179.185.224 (talk • contribs)

Have you tried Augusta, Maine? User:Zoe|(talk) 22:28, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I can't understand how a Google search could fail. If you manage to put anything close to "Augusta" and anything close to "Maine" in the Google search box, you should get all kinds of results. Perhaps you misspelled Google and ended up at Goggle.com or some other site ? StuRat 19:07, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Biblical name meanings as codes

Does anyone know of an instance where Biblical name meanings were used as a type of a code? Perhaps this may have been used in the Middle Ages or in the Renaissance period. Today something like this would not be used, since it is not very sophiticated compared to computer software. However in a time period where few people could read or write (i.e. the Renaissance) it could be useful. This way then the recipient would already have the "keys" to deciper the coded message, since it is the Biblical meanings. This being that this was prearranged ahead of time as the method used in the message. Then if the message got intercepted, it would look like just a jumbled set of words that didn't make much sense,
pretty much like today. Wasn't it true that in the Renaissance period of the Fourteenth century (for example) "secret coded messgaes" were used?--Doug 23:53, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

You already asked this on humanities ref. desk. Please don't double-post. AnonMoos 03:13, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Still looking for answers..... Did not double-post. If you will notice I did strike it out as I was instructed to do when a question is moved over to a more appropriate reference desk. Did not get any answers there, so thought perhaps I had the wrong place. It is more appropriate here since it is a type of language question. --Doug 23:09, 6 January 2007 (UTC) I think the answer is "no"(hotclaws**== 17:27, 10 January 2007 (UTC))