Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2023 August 1

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August 1

Brigadier Harvie-Walker?

Our article Action This Day (memo) mentions one Brigadier Harvie-Walker as Principal Private Secretary to Winston Churchill. He's not mentioned in Principal Private Secretary to the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, nor in List of British generals and brigadiers, but both lists do acknowledge their own incompleteness. Google is strangely reticent about him, only returning a handful of curiously similar results. He doesn't seem to be mentioned in Martin Gilbert's Finest Hour. So, who was he? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 02:00, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

I tried a Google Books search, but only found references to the same anecdote with Stuart Milner-Barry delivering the letter. I then tried a regular Google search for "churchill wartime staff" and found https://lincolnandchurchill.org/churchill/churchills-team-in-wwii/ this page] where it says Churchill's Principal Private Secretary was John Miller Martin from 1940 to 1945, but following links, I found this page at Cambridge University which says he hasn't the principal private secretary until 1941, so I can't tell if he got the position before or after the Milner-Barry's visit in October 1941.

In any case I have also found that George Harvie-Watt was Churchill's Parliamentary Private Secretary, and Wikipedia says he was promoted to Brigadier in 1941 (he's not in the List of British generals and brigadiers, but I think it'd be safe to add him).

So I suggest that (1) there never was a Brigadier Harvie-Walker; (2) it was actually Brigadier Harvie-Watt that Milner-Barry spoke to; but (3) when the secret of the secrets of Bletchley Park were finally revealed and the story of Milner-Barry's visit was first published, whoever told the story for publication mistook both the exact surname and the exact title of the man that Milner-Barry spoke to; and (4) later books have copied the error.

I therefore suggest adding an explanatory footnote to the Action This Day (memo) article to the effect that although multiple sources refer to Principal Private Secretary Brigadier Harvie-Walker, this is possibly a mistake for Parliamentary Private Secretary Brigadier Harvie-Watt. --142.112.221.64 (talk) 04:54, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Ah thank you! Harvie-Watt is in Gilbert - in Finest Hour he is indexed as "Harvie-Watt, Lieutenant-colonel (Sir) George", in Road to Victory as "Watt, Colonel Harvie". In October 1940 Churchill was taken to Redhill to visit an experimental searchlight and rocket anti-aircraft site where Harvie-Watt, an Assistant Government Whip, was commanding officer of 31st Anti-Aircraft Battalion and gave him a tour and a whisky ("You have poisoned me" cried out Churchill after swallowing half a tumbler neat). The tour was a failure (foul weather, the radar set didn't work, and Churchill was cold, bad-tempered, and had already seen everything HW tried to show him), but they fell to discussing politics, and Chamberlain's impending resignation from leadership of the Conservative Party. HW advised Churchill to become leader, "it was essential for the PM to have his own party" (Finest Hour pp 828-829). Gilbert says HW became PPS nine months later, which would be July 1941, so in good time for Milner-Barry. DuncanHill (talk) 09:37, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Ahah! Milner-Barry himself says it was Harvie-Watt! See this extract from The Essential Turing which quotes an article by M-B in Intelligence and Security. Looks like Smith made the slip in his Station X and that has been reproduced. DuncanHill (talk) 10:15, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

I've corrected the article, using the chapter from The Essential Turing as reference. When I can remember how to do footnotes I'll add one about Smith's mis-identification of HW. Many thanks again @ 142.112.221.64. DuncanHill (talk) 10:45, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

DuncanHill, unless you've worked it out already, the easiest way to add a footnote is to use {{efn|your text here (then close curly brackets), and then create a "Notes" section with the template {{notelist (and close curly brackets). Alansplodge (talk) 11:11, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

@Alansplodge: Thank you, that was what I couldn't remember. I did find some far less clear instructions for a far more complicated method, so am doubly grateful for your reminder. DuncanHill (talk) 11:47, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Sanjo, Niigata (Giant Baba's birthplace)

Please, can you help me to find the name of the American military unit and their commander who were there during the Allied ocvupation of Japan from 1945? Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.212.186 (talk) 06:45, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Courtesy links: Sanjō, Niigata; Giant Baba.  --Lambiam 09:21, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

The American troops originally stationed there were part of the 27th Division,^[1][2] soon to be relieved by the 97th Division.^[3]  --Lambiam 09:40, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

According to 27th Infantry Division (United States), the commander was Maj. Gen. George W. Griner Jr. (June 1944 – December 1945).

The commander of 97th Infantry Division (United States) was Major General Herman F. Kramer from 24 September 1945 to inactivation on 31 March 1946. Alansplodge (talk) 11:19, 1 August 2023 (UTC)