Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2022 June 8

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June 8

Hitler, Hagia Sophia, Turkey, What is the context?

I had started a Wikiqote page q:Hagia Sophia with Nehru's quote.

Meanwhile some IP seems to have added Adolf Hitler's quote there.

• I did not get it's context and significance, if any, a) to Adolf Hitler and b) Turkey then

• c) and also Turkish ip user now to remember and quote Hitler's quote. Is context of Hitler's quote important to any more people there in present Turkey or this IP user is likely to be odd man out.

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 08:31, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

The quote is also shown in Atatürk in the Nazi Imagination (p. 187) which explains some of the context. Atatürk's secular reforms are a hot topic in modern Turkey, as Recep Tayyip Erdogan is going back on some of them. See Why Ataturk's legacy is debated 80 years after his death. Alansplodge (talk) 11:19, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

That article calls Turkey the "Muslim world's model democracy", which is rather sad even if only somewhat true... AnonMoos (talk) 22:58, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Can you think of a better one? Alansplodge (talk) 10:12, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Don't want to get too off-topic, but even before Erdogan, Turkey was known for repeated military coups, election-related violence, and brutal treatment of non-Turkish minorities (Kurds, Greeks). That appellation just seems bizarre to me (you could admit that Turkey has been a roughly-functioning partial democracy during certain periods of its history, without holding it up as a "model" for others)... (See Political violence in Turkey (1976-1980) etc.) AnonMoos (talk) 21:42, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

It all depends what you're comparing it to. Like Mr. Plodge said, can you think of a better "Muslim model democracy"? --<-Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots-> 18:34, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Turkey is, by its constitution, a strictly secular republic. Indonesia, less often plagued by coups, has a larger Muslim population. It is not strictly secular; our article Religion in Indonesia calls it "a compromise between the ideas of a secularism model and an Islamic state".  --Lambiam 23:12, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Alansplodge's link says Turkey (and Atatürk) defeated the allies in the First World War. How so? I agree the Dardanelles was a setback, but the allies were victorious. They could have cleared Turkey out of Europe altogether but handed Constantinople to them when they could have given it to Greece. I suspect that Atatürk's reforms were as much a reaction to the Armenian genocide as to anything else. 89.240.118.45 (talk) 11:42, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Turkey "lost" WW1 in the sense that the defeat of the Central Powers left it exposed and vulnerable, and unlikely to maintain its empire over many non-Turkish-populated territories, but it "won" the post-war settlement in the sense that the Treaty of Sevres was never implemented... AnonMoos (talk) 00:05, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

The Ottoman Empire was one of the losing parties of WW1. The cutting up of Turkey per the provisions of the Treaty of Sèvres led in 1919 to the Turkish War of Independence, which Turkey won, the establishment of the Republic of Turkey, and the Treaty of Lausanne, which superseded the Treaty of Sèvres.  --Lambiam 23:20, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

The nature of a diplomatic bag's passport

According to the Queen's Messenger article, "[t]he bag is closed with a tamper-proof seal and has its own diplomatic passport". What kind of passport is this? Does it have the usual page where one would expect to see name and date of birth? What details are present instead? Equinox ◑ 16:27, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

There's no reference, so it's not clear where this came from, but in my experience, the bag or other package is clearly marked as a diplomatic parcel, in addition to the seal. If it contains sensitive materials, it is escorted at all times by a diplomatic courier who holds a special diplomatic passport (there's an example illustrating the article). This can include taking the parcel into the airplane cabin, and purchasing a seat for the parcel if necessary, but I've never heard of it being issued a passport. There are also procedures if the package is too bulky to bring into the cabin, to ensure it's never left without surveillance. Xuxl (talk) 16:38, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

I've removed the entire sentence. I see nothing in the Diplomatic bags - FCO information sheet on use and control that says anything about "its own diplomatic passport". It does say "where a bag is in the custody of a diplomatic courier, the courier must carry an official document indicating his status (such as a special courier's passport)". Unless, of course, it becomes sentient. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:13, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Princeton University Marx Hall

[1] Marx Hall was recently renamed to Wooten Hall. Question: Who was it named after previously? Did they really have a building named after Karl Marx? Or even Harpo Marx, say? Just wondering. Thanks 2601:648:8202:350:3CDF:9DCE:47E4:8E2C (talk) 17:58, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

It was named for [2] Louis Marx, class of 1953, a donor who is [3] "unable to fulfill his pledge." Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 18:07, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

See also The Unveiling of Marx Hall. The Marx in question is ironically a venture capitalist and the son of Louis Marx, "the toy king of America". Alansplodge (talk) 21:48, 8 June 2022 (UTC)