Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2022 July 5

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July 5

Médecins Sans Frontières Barcelona-Athens operational centre

The Médecins Sans Frontières article says:

MSF has an associative structure, where operational decisions are made, largely independently, by the five operational centres (Amsterdam, Barcelona-Athens, Brussels, Geneva and Paris).

What's the history behind MSF's Barcelona-Athens operational centre?

When an organizational campus is spread across two cities, the two cities are usually very close to each other. But in this case, Barcelona is around 1900 kilometers away from Athens. Daniel T Wolters (talk) 00:17, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Maybe you can glean something from this. It seems pretty complicated, something having to do with MSF Greece being dropped from the international organization due to some bad behavior related to Kosovo. A search for OCBA is fruitful. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 04:15, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

"At the beginning of May, MSF’s Greek section undertook an exploratory mission to Kosovo and Serbia, despite opposition from the other sections who considered that this mission was not in accordance with MSF’s principles of operational independence. The Greek section was excluded from the movement until 2005 as aresult of this action.." [1] --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 04:27, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

One quote from the book linked to above, page 263: "OCBA (Operational Centre Barcelona-Athens) was created in 2004, during the reintegration of MSF Gr[eece] [with the] purpose [of] attaching the section to one of the existing operational centres."  --Lambiam 08:49, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

How do negative interest rates work?

Everyone would rush to withdraw all their money from the bank to hoard cash. Or borrow ridiculously large sums just to earn free money. 121.7.145.195 (talk) 14:31, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

The point is to encourage spending. It's not about loans, but rather about storing money in the bank; the first example of this was in 2009, when the Swedish Central Bank set their overnight deposit rate to -0.1%. I don't see any evidence of anyone being able to borrow money at negative interest. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 14:57, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

The issue is for depositors, not borrowers. When large sums are involved, there is a cost to holding cash; bank vault-type security can’t handle billions of pounds, dollars or euros. Typically, this is the spread between deposit and lending (investment) rates. If the prime objective is Return OF Capital (rock bottom minimal risk), rather than Return ON Capital (earnings) it may make sense to pay a fee (negative interest) to an institution that will safely (guaranteed, insured) hold the capital until it is needed. DOR (HK) (talk) 16:18, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Judge Sheriff

Is it possible for the same person to be a judge and a sheriff at the same time in any jurisdiction in the US? Or in any two different counties at the same time? Thanks 31.217.12.44 (talk) 16:11, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

That would depend on the laws of a given state. --<-Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots-> 00:17, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Somewhere out there, rules for being a police have no part-time, and rules for being judge, also have no part-time, making it theoretically impossible to be both. 67.165.185.178 (talk) 03:06, 6 July 2022 (UTC).

So it's possible generally? I didn't expect part-time sheriffs to exist but it seems they really do! 31.217.48.243 (talk) 12:00, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? 41.165.67.114 (talk) 07:10, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Are judges elected in the US? And if they are, can they be removed from office either in another election or on someone's whim? The issue in Scotland is not that judges and sheriffs can be part time (no problem) but if they are "temporary" they are not an "independent and impartial tribunal" within the meaning of Article 6(1) of the European Convention on Human Rights [2]. 2A00:23C5:C719:7201:2CFC:E3D5:511:6B53 (talk) 13:16, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Some judges in the US are elected. It varies depending on the state and the level of jurisdiction. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 16:24, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

The issue 2A00.whatever alludes to is real, in states like California that do elect their judges. Rose Bird, with whom I agreed on the death penalty and on little else, was removed from office with two other Supreme Court justices for refusing to enforce the death penalty. The judge who gave Brock Turner a sentence considered extraordinarily lenient was overwhelmingly turned out at the next election. Note that the issue here is not whether the sentence was in fact too lenient, but whether an outraged public should be placing pressure on criminal sentencing decisions. --Trovatore (talk) 17:06, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Rose Bird irritated many people through a kind of dishonesty -- in her decisions, she didn't say that the death penalty was unconstitutional, but she gave various reasons to rule against imposing the death penalty in every single relevant case that came before her. AnonMoos (talk) 07:23, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

At the Federal level the answer is (almost) definitely no. The principle of separation of powers is part of many governments and is laid out in Article I, Sec. 6 of the U.S. Constitution and upheld by the courts as a restriction in particular on serving in two branches of the U.S. government simultaneously (called the Incompatibility Clause, see overview at Constitution Center, and their link to Calabresi and Larsen for a history and theory). One unchallenged marginal case is if a member of congress can serve in the military reserves or National Guard. Many state constitutions prohibit simultaneously holding state and federal office. Each state constitution has its own list of incompatible offices, and some like California have a more general rule such as the incompatibility of offices that have audit or oversight over each other (so presumably a judge, legislator, prosecutor, governor, or sheriff, and many others, and basically any other office?). New Jersey and South Dakota call out sheriffs in particular, but many specify that officeholders may still serve as unelected or low-pay/rank law enforcement officeholders (presumably not sheriffs). In the end though state constitutions tend to be even longer documents than the (remarkably short) federal one, and have potentially more implied restrictions, so the authorities on the potential of say any court challenge would be the state attorney general's office and whoever the resident state's constitutional scholar is, probably at one of the universities. SamuelRiv (talk) 14:42, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

I don't think there are any federal sheriffs. --<-Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots-> 14:48, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

"There are two federal equivalents of the sheriff": The United States Marshals Service and the Marshal of the United States Supreme Court. SamuelRiv (talk) 15:01, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. --<-Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots-> 16:33, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

It's a little unclear to me how the Marshals are any more equivalents of sheriffs and sherriffs' deputies than they are of ordinary city police officers. A sheriff's deputy is really just a police officer with county jurisdiction. (The FBI is not supposed to be a police force, so the Marshals are arguably the closest thing to a federal police force.) --Trovatore (talk) 19:45, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

The statement beginning "There are two federal equivalents of the sheriff..." appears to be an editor's opinion. --<-Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots-> 22:30, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the detailed response, SamuelRiv. I'm assuming if there's any county/state where this is/was legally possible, the question is moot as the public would probably avoid voting for anyone attempting to do this for obvious reasons, but I'm still interested if it has ever been theoretically possible because it relates to an idea for a novel. 31.217.0.233 (talk) 20:43, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

If you're thinking what I'm thinking, of frontier justice and the Wild West, then from a few minutes' research it looks like most of the "sheriffs" of the time were in fact other offices, formal or informal, private or public, civilian or uniformed -- the sheriff was without exception an elected constitutional office. Two interesting stories (i.e. the first ones I found) are judge Roy Bean who had no executive office but crossed a lot of lines as a judge, and Henry Plummer who was elected sheriff in Montana and did some shenanigans. More Wild West stories from historynet. History of the Sheriff from NC Sheriff's Assoc (from ancient to modern times -- very interesting stuff.)

There's of course no reason a Roy Bean-like character judge in fiction wouldn't be able to also be appointed the local marshal by the town council, or be a Texas Ranger, or deputized, in the Old West or in any other remote or "lawless" outskirt. Similarly, there's no reason an elected or high-ranking executive branch official in fiction can't carry out their own brand of "executive justice". Coming this summer.... SamuelRiv (talk) 22:51, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

"Sheriff" is often used as short for "sheriff's deputy". The sheriff in the strict sense is the head of the entire sheriff's department, often an elected office (but sometimes an appointive one I think), analogous to police chief. The deputies are analogous to police officers, but are often referred to as "sheriffs". --Trovatore (talk) 01:12, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

1 thing I like about the topic-starter's question, that nobody seems to realize, is that judges and police are both part of the Executive Branch. 1 can argue a bigger conflict of interest if having jobs between different branches. Btw, someone brought up federal judges and federal sheriffs (U.S. Marshall). Sounds like it wouldn't be a contradiction to be a federal judge and state sheriff, or state judge and federal sheriff? ;) 67.165.185.178 (talk) 04:31, 7 July 2022 (UTC).

Judges part of the Executive Branch?? What about the Judicial Branch? --174.89.144.80 (talk) 04:47, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

There are numerous examples of sherifs functioning as judges. --Soman (talk) 13:46, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

While he doesn't quite fit the OP's specifics Judge Roy Bean was "the only law west of the Pecos" and performed the function of both offices. MarnetteD|Talk 14:13, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, let's be real clear on this. Judges are not part of the executive branch in the United States. 67.165.185.178 is flat wrong on this. --Trovatore (talk) 16:17, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

As noted in Sheriffs in the United States, generally speaking they are elected by the citizens of their counties and thus are directly accountable to the citizens, not to any branch of the state government. So, whether they truly qualify as members of the state's executive branch, could be debated. --←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:52, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Hmm? Governors are also directly elected, but are clearly executive branch. --Trovatore (talk) 18:37, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Don't confuse county sheriffs with State police (United States). --←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:08, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

I'm not confusing those two. That response strikes me as a non-sequitur. You claimed that county sheriffs could be argued to be not executive branch because they're directly elected. I pointed out that governors are also directly elected but are clearly executive branch. I don't see how state police figure in to that exchange at all. --Trovatore (talk) 22:12, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

It will depend on how each state's laws define what's what. --←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:37, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

• https://wichitacountytx.com/locations/county-judge/ Texas County Judges are not judges in the classical sense - instead, they are executive branch, sometimes vested with Judicial authority as well. Though never heard of one also being Sheriff. Slywriter (talk) 16:52, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Another recreational dive

I know a lot of people, especially kids, tend to do a recreational dive called the "can opener". Why isn't there an article about that type of thing?2603:7000:8100:F444:412:4DDE:E611:E730 (talk) 22:59, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Has anything been written about it in any reliable sources? --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 23:16, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

The much better known cannonball has a small article. I venture to guess that there's not much to say about the can opener, not enough to justify a standalone article IMO. I'm having trouble even finding a list of such informal dives out in "the wild". Clarityfiend (talk) 00:17, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Yes, Google search indicates it's kind of a cannonball variant. --←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:22, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

If we wanted a list of cannonball and other informal dives, here are some (semi?-)RS sources [3] and [4]. DMacks (talk) 16:01, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Now see Cannonball (diving)#Variants and Can opener (disambiguation). Alansplodge (talk) 09:55, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks! Always great when RD leads to article-improvements. DMacks (talk) 15:32, 9 July 2022 (UTC)