Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2022 July 14

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July 14

What do you call this kind of relationship: customer's customers.

Where you can sell to your customer, but not to your customer's customer. The most common example is grocery wholesale warehouses, they sell to grocery stores, but not to restaurants (because restaurants buy from grocery stores). I remember working at 1, and remember seeing a restaurant owner try to buy from the wholesale, they took him to the owner's on, who says "we only sell to restaurants if you own 25 restaurants. Otherwise, if you buy from us directly, you hurt our (grocery store) customers."

And to give a lesser-known example, I once worked for an asphalt company in the U.S. I asked my co-worker about the 1st week on the job, do we sell to the state government (for the highways). (State Department of Transportation.). He asked 1 of the owners of the company, who said "No they buy from our customers, but we don't sell to them directly." I didn't ask why couldn't we sell directly to them, must be due to this "relationship." I wonder what do we call this in economics? I suspect economists have a term for this. But since this is the state government as a customer's customers, 1 wonders what harm would it do if the state bought for a cheaper price, and therefore has more money, and can lower public expenses.

So for a 2nd question, does anyone know of any cases where the industry permanently changed (~90%), where a customer's customer became customer, or vice versa? Thanks. 67.165.185.178 (talk) 03:04, 14 July 2022 (UTC).

There are many terms for the "middle man" in the relationship. A few examples... It could be a supplier: A business that supplies goods/supplies to another business. It could be a distributor: A business that stores goods/supplies and provides them to other businesses as they need them. It could be a wholesaler: A business that stocks goods/supplies and sells them at a discount compared to retail price so retailers can make a profit by reselling those goods/supplies. It isn't a simple manufacturer-supplier-customer model. It is usually something like a manufacturer-distributor-shipper-supplier-distributer-wholesaer-retailer-customer model. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 11:50, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Answering the second question, there are examples of disruption in this model. For example, Amazon removed the retailer at first by going straight from a warehouse to the end customer. Now, there are retailers on Amazon, so it wasn't permanent. Another example are the wholesale stores that give wholesale prices to end customers. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 15:01, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

It's a bit outside the scope of your question, but restaurants typically don't buy from grocery stores except in emergencies. Grocery stores sell to the public so they charge what are referred to as retail prices, which include a significant markup from their cost of goods. Restaurants, both independent ones and those in a chain or buying group, buy from wholesale foodservice distributors like Sysco and Gordon Food Service. Besides getting a better deal on the sale price, their agreement will also include delivery, rebates, bill backs, and other complications that simply don't exist at the retail level. A foodservice distributor will also offer material and services not found at grocery stores, such as commercial-sized foods, restaurant-quality smallwares, equipment, and warehousing for printed materials from logo cups to branded clothing. They're two almost entirely distinct supply chains.

An interesting tid-bit on that subject became apparent to everyone about two years ago when toilet paper suddenly became in short supply - those shortages were primarily driven by demand switching from a long-established ratio to an entirely new one as restaurants closed and home TP needs skyrocketed. The two drew from different supply chains and different manufacturing locations, even if the name on the box was the same. Matt Deres (talk) 17:06, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Expanding on that, I feel it is important to note that an average retail customer cannot purchase from a large-volume distributor or supplier. I tried once. I wanted edible roses, which were not available at any retail location I could find. They were available from a restaurant food supplier. I tried and tried ot place an order, but my order was far too small to deal with the paperwork, so I was ignored. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 18:22, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

That is true. The reason why is that foodservice warehouses are set up (both physically in terms of racking as well as logistically) to exploit the economies of scale so that they can afford to operate with thinner margins. Single customers don't fit well into that setup; the overhead required to get a new customer set up would never get repaid by a one off purchase, even if it was sizable. It's just not their thing. Matt Deres (talk) 22:17, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Hm the place I worked at was just for fruits and vegetables. Which only sold to grocery stores, they did not allow to sell to restaurants. 67.165.185.178 (talk) 05:16, 16 July 2022 (UTC).

Who is "they"? --←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:21, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

The place the IP worked at.  --Lambiam 09:17, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Yea, I was under the impression that restaurants buy fruits and vegetables from grocery stores, but everything else, they buy to suppliers of restaurants. But if there are wholesale-suppliers of fruits and vegetables to grocery stores-only, and wholesale suppliers of fruits and vegetables to restaurants only, that would be interesting. 67.165.185.178 (talk) 14:16, 16 July 2022 (UTC).

When you say "not allowed", it sounds like some kind of legal restriction. If it's the company's choice, then it's merely their business plan. --←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:16, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

There are different set ups. Most broadline foodservice distributors include produce as part of their goods offered, though it's typically with the help of a "sister" company that specializes in that stuff. For example, Sysco is a broadline foodservice distributor and FreshPoint is their affiliated produce specialist. Produce, fresh seafood, smallwares, fresh bread, and sometimes meat primals are offerings that broadline distributors sometimes "farm out" to specialists. In Ontario, for example, Flanagan Foodservice is a broadline distributor which owns Roseland Produce Wholesale (fruit and produce) and is sister companies with STOP Restaurant Supply (smallwares and equipment) and has longstanding relationships with Caudle's Seafood and The Butcher Shoppe so that their customers can place one order and have access to all those offerings.

In places where the population is high enough to support the model, some restaurants, especially higher end ones, also make use of "jobbers" - specialized tiny companies that may deliver daily or even multiple times daily for items like bread, produce and seafood. These are typically higher quality and larger sizes than you'd see in a grocery store, but the restaurant is willing to use them because of the quality and convenience, even if the price is inflated.

I don't work in grocery supply - and situations can be different all over the place - but there are multiple reasons why a grocery store DC wouldn't want to supply to a restaurant, from logistical reasons to purely bureaucratic ones. You can't just walk up to a Martin-Brower warehouse and ask to buy some Big Mac burger patties. It's simply not allowed - those cases are for McDonald's exclusive use.It's probably similar for grocery suppliers. Matt Deres (talk) 18:15, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

All the Yules have come at once

Prompted by a question on the language desk, are there any verifiable connections between these people who share a surname?

*Sir Henry Yule (1820 – 1889), Scottish Orientalist and geographer, compiler of the Hobson-Jobson

*George Yule (businessman) (1829-1892), part of the family that created Andrew Yule and Company

*George Yule (linguist) (born 1947) Carbon Caryatid (talk) 19:38, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Who was this Viscountess Petersham?

"In October 1748, a ball was held at Dublin Castle by the Viscountess Petersham" - an event which served as the unofficial debut for two Irish sisters who went on to marry very well, Elizabeth Hamilton, 1st Baroness Hamilton of Hameldon and Maria Coventry, Countess of Coventry. The quoted sentence is from our articles. Dublin Castle is of course the seat of government, the residence of the Chief governor of Ireland. The man holding that office in 1748 was William Stanhope, 1st Earl of Harrington (1683-1756), who had been created Viscount Petersham in 1742. His wife Anne Griffiths had died in 1719, so she was never became viscountess. Did he re-marry? If so, to whom? If not, who served as the social and political hostess at the Castle? I know that sometimes a man without a wife would have a daughter, sister, or niece act in this role. Is there any precedent for a woman in this position using the title, as if she were his wife? It seems odd. But would a Chief Governor without a "First Lady" be able to hold a ball? Carbon Caryatid (talk) 19:57, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Harrington's eldest son would have been known as VIscount Petersham, by courtesy. Petersham married Lady Caroline Fitzroy in 1746, so she would have been known as Viscountess Petersham. DuncanHill (talk) 20:06, 14 July 2022 (UTC)