Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2020 September 14

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September 14

Foreign translations before native language publications

I've noticed that, for example, the Russian translation of Krzysztof Boruń's novel Próg nieśmiertelności came earlier than the original Polish publication (in 1967 and 1975, respectively). How is that possible? Did the translator obtain the pre-print manuscript or something else? 212.180.235.46 (talk) 18:22, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

With that much of a date difference the only thing that makes sense to me is that the author was initially unable to find a Polish publisher, and so allowed the work to be released in translated form first. Or are you sure that you have the correct date for the Polish release? Might it have been released in serialized form in magazines and only later collected as a book? --Khajidha (talk) 19:38, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

The dates are correct. And according to this Russian source, the same happened to his another novel Ósmy krąg piekieł which "had not been published for a long time in the author's homeland and was first published in Polish in 1978". Yet for some reason the Russian translation of it came in 1966. Perhaps, unable to publish in Poland, he decided to give those two manuscripts for translation first. Weird. 212.180.235.46 (talk) 19:58, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

During the Cold War, lots of Eastern European authors had their manuscripts published in translation in the West before they were printed in their native language around that time, largely because they were in political disfavor and could not get published by the state-controlled presses. Their works used to circulate in samizdat form in its original form, but were easier to find in translation. Alexander Solzhenitsyn and Josef Skvorecky are examples. Now, the title the OP mentions is from that time and place, but having it published in Russian first is indeed unusual. Someone else will know the story behind this, hopefully. Xuxl (talk) 20:02, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

As an add-on, there are some authors who are more popular in translation than in their original language, usually because some influential reader has given their works a push outside their native country, something which has not happened in their home language. Xuxl (talk) 20:04, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

The articles on the author on the Polish and Russian Wikipedia's both also state that these two novels appeared in Russian and Ukrainian translations well before they were published in Polish, but offer no further explanation. Perhaps there was something that offended the Polish censors but did not bother the Soviet censors so much. It took Stanisław Lem seven years to get the first work the wrote approved by the censors. Or perhaps the versions published in the Soviet Union were published in censored form, which was not uncommon in these days. The versions of The Master and Margarita published in Soviet Russia from 1966 on were also "adjusted" to the sensibilities of the regime, obviously without the consent of the author who had died long before, both by cutting out whole sections and by changing words.  --Lambiam 20:20, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Ian Watson's novel Orgasmachine was published in French in 1976, but an English version, The Woman Factory only appeared in 2010. --ColinFine (talk) 21:00, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

For some reasons Alan Burt Akers' Dray Prescot series (basically Gor without the sex) were very popular in Germany, and the later volumes were only published in German translation. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 13:12, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

Non-Protestants among Russian Germans

Among all of the Germans in the Russian Empire and Soviet Union, just how many non-Protestants were there? I have the impression that most of these Germans were Protestants but I'm wondering if there were ever any sizable non-Protestant German communities in the Russian Empire and/or Soviet Union--and, if so, where exactly? Futurist110 (talk) 21:52, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Did you take into account Jews? DOR (HK) (talk) 17:21, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

No, I didn't. Futurist110 (talk) 19:08, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

DOR_(HK) -- It's doubtful whether Jews in Russia would have considered themselves "German" or have been widely considered by others to be "German", even if most of them spoke a German dialect (Yiddish, which they of course wrote with the Hebrew alphabet). Even in the United States today, the majority of American Jews have ancestors who came from areas now in Germany, Poland, or Ukraine, but they rarely call themselves "German-Americans", "Polish-Americans", or "Ukrainian-Americans" (or are considered to be such by those who identify themselves as German-Americans, Polish Americans, or Ukrainian-Americans), except for recent immigrants and a few other special cases... AnonMoos (talk) 19:01, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Yes, correct! Futurist110 (talk) 19:08, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

There is one useful number in a footnote in that article: "Gerhard Reichling estimated that out of 1,400,000 Germans deported from the USSR in the Flight and expulsion of Germans 1,119,000 were Protestant and 254,000 were Catholic." --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇} 16:16, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Yep, I later saw that figure. Futurist110 (talk) 06:36, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

An article by Kornelius Ens on the website of the (German) Federal Agency for Civic Education ("Religiosität unter Russlanddeutschen") gives these figures for those ethnic Germans who managed to leave the Soviet Union in the 1970s to settle in Germany and who declared themselves as Christians: Lutheran 41,3 %, Catholic 30,8 %, Baptist 16,8 %, Mennonite 8,5 %, others about 3 %: --Morinox (talk) 19:36, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

So, more Russian Catholic Germans relative to Russian Protestant Germans decided to emigrate? Futurist110 (talk) 06:36, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

How do you read 30.8% as greater than 41.3% + 16.8% + 8.5%??? --Jayron32 12:52, 18 September 2020 (UTC)