Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2020 March 23

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March 23

Holy City, Devon

Why is Holy City, Devon so called? Thanks, DuncanHill (talk) 01:39, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

I can't answer the specific question. However, although the Oxford Dictionary of English Place-Names (by A. D. Mills, OUP 2nd Rev. Ed. 1997) doesn't have an entry for it, it has entries for five other places beginning with "Holy-". For four of these - (Holybourne, Hants., Holy Island, Northum., Holystone, Northum., and Holywell, Cambs. - the "Holy" derives from Old English halig meaning, well, "holy". The fifth is Holyport, Berks., where it derives from Old English horig meaning dirty, which was intentionally changed to holy by the late 14th century. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.27.39 (talk) 16:09, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Anyway, it's less strangely named than Westward Ho!, Devon... -- AnonMoos (talk) 17:42, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

An annoyingly brief "snippet view" from Google Books of Notes and Queries for Somerset and Dorset: Volume 28 (1960) which says:

"I should much like to know what Holy City actually was and if it was possibly a possession of the Knights Hospitaller before 1540 [when the order was dissolved in England]. I have fairly complete lists of all their pre- Reformation estates throughout the country and nothing in the Chardstock area is mentioned. The Commandery for Dorset was at..."

That's all I can see. In any Christian context, "Holy City" almost invariably means Jerusalem (except in this case obviously). Alansplodge (talk) 21:37, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Well, And did those feet in ancient time by William Blake says "...Till we have built Jerusalem, In Englands green & pleasant Land" so it's not an entirely foreign idea. HiLo48 (talk) 23:24, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Another suggestion, this time from a self-published work called Search for the Passengers of the Mary & John, 1630 under the heading "NOTES ON CHARDSTOCK TOWN" on p. 191. Apparently "Monks from the Sarum at Salisbury lived at Holy City, a half a mile from the village - hence its name". Note that Salisbury is 68 miles from Chardstock, so it's a bit of a hike, especially in sandals. Alansplodge (talk) 21:49, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Despite my scepticism, it seems that "In ancient times the bishops of Sarum occasionally resided at Chardstock, where they had a seat and an extensive park, and where, as appears in the Registers of Institutions at Salisbury, they issued many of their official documents". The book of the Axe (1875) by George Philip R. Pulman p. 564. Alansplodge (talk) 21:59, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, interesting stuff - one imagines there would be some local folklore attached to the name, but it eludes my efforts for the time being. DuncanHill (talk) 01:08, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

The book Time, Space, and Order: The Making of Medieval Salisbury presents the thesis that Sarum (Medieval Salisbury) was created so as to evoke the concept of the Holy City – Heavenly Jerusalem. Chapter 5 of the book has the title "The Churchyard and Close – The Holy City", but the limited page views do not allow me to see the first four pages. The bishops of Salisbury may have aimed to mimic the idea in the making of their retreat in Chardstock (which seems to have been at what now is Court Farm).  --Lambiam 04:15, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

In the Domesday Book of 1086 "Cerdestoche" is listed as being under Osmund de Sées, Bishop of Salisbury, so the association goes back to the early days of Sarum. Interesting fact: he was present at the assembly where the Domesday Book was accepted.  --Lambiam 04:34, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

• Wouldn't it be serendipitous if we discovered that Michael Maybrick (aka Stephen Adams) was born somewhere close by. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 18:13, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually born here (8 Church Alley, Liverpool). His "Holy City" seems to be more popular away from his native shores, I had never heard of it but have just corrected that by looking it up on YouTube. Alansplodge (talk) 19:25, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Really? Very surprising. It's been a cemented-in staple of Carols by Candlelights in Australia for more years than I could count. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 01:21, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

I may be mistaken, but I've been singing (rather badly) in our Anglican parish church choir for more than 50 years and never come across it. However, YouTube includes a recording by the London Philharmonic Choir so obviously not totally unknown here. Alansplodge (talk) 14:52, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

It's not familiar to me either, tho' my hymn singing experience is restricted to school assemblies, and primary school trips to chapel (Methodist) and church (CofE) for Easter/Harvest Festival/Christmas, and Scouts for Remembrance Day. That said - now I've listened to the hymn I think Mr Partridge in Hi-de-Hi sang a bit of the chorus as "Jerusalem! Jerusalem! Lift up your skirts and dance!" in one episode. DuncanHill (talk) 14:59, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

It's more of a song than a hymn - in the same kind of genre as The Lost Chord. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 15:31, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Youths and Coronavirus

How many related deaths in the coronavirus outbreak are currently under the age of 18? I try searching this up but haven’t found any processing numbers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.209.14.47 (talk) 02:08, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

According to [1] It is 0.2% of 11277 which is around 22 deaths for that age group. RudolfRed (talk) 03:10, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

The range that is compatible with that percentage if rounded to one decimal digit is 17 to (inclusive) 28 deaths.  --Lambiam 03:31, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Brenda Bettinson, print articles in archives, struggle

So, inspired by the wikipedia call for articles about women, I wanted to write an article about an 80+ year old artist I have met named Brenda Bettinson. She was a professor and department chair and creator of art & design program at NYC's Pace University (famous for the Actor's Studio). She has been showed in the World's Fair next to ancient famous art in the Vatican Pavilion.

Because she was famous long ago (60s/70s), there is very little for resources online about her. Having contacted and communicated with her gallery, they have been sending me some things, but not much of what I need for a wikipedia article.

My question: Where can I look to fill in the facts about her and how do I find what I need to create a successful page?

Thank you so much GiantHyssop

GiantHyssop (talk) 15:59, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

You may have seen this, but I found:

North American Women Artists of the Twentieth Century: A Biographical Dictionary (p. 67) edited by Jules Heller, Nancy G. Heller

Alansplodge (talk) 17:56, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

I'd start with a stub so that others may help to flesh it out using little snippets gleaned left and right. Apparently she was at some time a student of Raymond Bloch. That must have been while she studied in Paris, so we know she studied there at the École pratique des hautes études. Now searching for the combination ["École pratique des hautes études" "Brenda Bettinson"] brings up more usable information, like at the Everybodywiki (CC BY-SA 3.0!) and the UNE Library Services. Together this looks like a pretty solid start for a stub. Perhaps the people at the gallery can help to convince copyright owners to allow some (relatively low rez) images of her work to be uploaded to the Commons.  --Lambiam 18:35, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Some detailed biographical info here but it's unclear (to me anyway) what the source is. Alansplodge (talk) 22:05, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Seeing that this bio mentions she was listed in Marquis Who's Who, her entry there was likely a source. In that case I guess it was self-supplied.  --Lambiam 02:34, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Okay, that makes sense. Alansplodge (talk) 16:41, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Goethe's quietism

[2] says of Goethe, "Worshipped as the greatest genius in German history and as an exemplary poet and human being, he has also been criticized for his political conservatism and quietism, which in the twentieth century came to seem sinister legacies."

Quietism on en.wp is a disambiguation page pointing to several articles, any of which could fit. Any idea what they are referring to? Thanks. 2601:648:8202:96B0:386A:A40C:EBB1:ACC0 (talk) 20:36, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Lexico powered by Oxford says: "calm acceptance of things as they are without attempts to resist or change them". Alansplodge (talk) 21:18, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

An example of that could be the old, crude joke that if rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:21, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

I think the attribute "political" is meant to also modify "quietism". The English Wikipedia defines political quietism as: "the withdrawal from political affairs".  --Lambiam 02:54, 24 March 2020 (UTC)