Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2019 March 13

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March 13

Roman debt crisis

The late Roman republic seems to have suffered from various debt crisis in around 63 BC. How did the republic propose to solve it? Is there a way they could have solved it? Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 01:20, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

In ancient times, a debt crisis was more often due to farmers having fallen into permanently unpayable debts, rather than the government owing money. See Second Catilinarian conspiracy for 63 B.C. Rome, and Seisachtheia for solutions adopted in a different time and place... AnonMoos (talk) 05:33, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

There is a book[1] by the left wing Michael Hudson (economist) claiming periodic enforced debt forgiveness (jubilees) were essential in preventing debt from spiralling. I haven't read it and it might be a bit fringey. I'm surprised we don't have an article about debt jubilees, but we have Jubilee (biblical) and Jubilee (Christianity). 173.228.123.166 (talk) 08:50, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Is it true that fine wine is dry and often tanniny cause military wine rations were cheap, vinegary, tanniny and dry?

I've heard that centuries ago discharged French soldiers were given wine grape land or land suited for that and many winemakers were ex-military at some point. Dryness and tannins don't seem so important after drinking spoiled crap for so many years thus not finishing fermentation is now a big no-no. They might've acquired a taste for dry and tanniny too. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:41, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

In the first place, 'fine' wines come in many different varieties of taste and mouthfeel (deriving from both the grape varieties used and to an extent on the production processes), some of which may be dry and/or tanniny (which is not necessarily a fault in wine or other drinks), many others of which are certainly neither.

In the second place, many other countries than France make 'fine' wines. (I myself am particularly partial to Mosel Rieslings, having developed a taste for them when living in NW Germany.) This story seems to incorporate some rather shaky and limited assumptions, but an expert on French history may be able to shed more light. Anyone? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.123.27.125 (talk) 17:41, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

Right, to whatever extent this is true it'd have to be only French wine and those culturally influenced by them. And I would expect some dry wines to develop no matter what, I've heard there's a "less classy" stereotype with sweet wine though and wonder if there's any truth to this being caused by this urban legend sounding thing. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:07, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

"Less classy", were you thinking about the 1970's stereotype that California wine was intended for Californian teen-agers, and who would have them sweet because otherwise used to drink sweetened milk, and soda ? Looking at the Judgement of Paris (of 1976) it's more complicated than the stereotypes. ---Askedonty (talk) 21:23, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

Although on one point, it is true that the vin ordinaire issued to French forces was extremely rough stuff. In a book about the Norwegian Campaign (probably The Doomed Expedition: The Campaign in Norway, 1940 by Jack Adams but I don't have it to hand now), there is a story that some aristocratic Coldstream Guards officers traded some of their battalion's rum ration for a barrel of wine from the French Foreign Legion, expecting a nice claret or something, but found it so unpleasant that nobody could drink it. Note that even the French will only drink the stuff watered-down or laced with creme de cassis. Alansplodge (talk) 11:24, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

See Pinard (wine), though that's a very scanty article. The French version has much more info, including the fact that the pinard was "vinasse" - usual translation is "plonk". There is no mention, however, of any connection to their soldiers after their discharge, other than increased alcoholism. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 16:01, 15 March 2019 (UTC)