Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2018 October 28

Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

October 28

Are U.S. citizens automatically authorized to work in the United States?

I have found this Wikipedia article: Employment authorization document. However, it exclusively talks about people who aren't U.S. citizens. Thus, are U.S. citizens automatically authorized to work in the United States?

Also, I apologize if this is an extremely stupid question. Futurist110 (talk) 05:00, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

A Social-Security Number and a driver's license are enough for most job applications (unless there are special stringent background checks for a particular job). AnonMoos (talk) 05:27, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

@AnonMoos: The question seems to be about what is required by federal law. Certainly a driver's license is not. It may be required by an employer, but that's another matter. As for social security numbers, I don't know the law, but I know a lot of falsehoods circulate, including the belief that everyone is required to have one. Michael Hardy (talk) 13:29, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

All American citizens are theoretically authorized to be employed if they've reached the legal minimum age, but as a practical matter, they may find it very difficult to obtain above-board legitimate documented employment without a Social Security number and a driver's license (or a state ID card as a driver's-license equivalent). AnonMoos (talk) 18:02, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

A non-American here. Obviously not everyone will have a driver's licence, and I don't know how one gets (and proves one has) a Social-Security Number. Are they issued at birth? HiLo48 (talk) 05:30, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Our article Social Security number talks about the logistics. In principle, you're not required to have one, I think, but in practice it's extremely difficult to manage without. --Trovatore (talk) 05:34, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

HiLo48 -- if you don't drive, you can get a state ID card, which is generally also issued by each state's DMV, and is equivalent to a driver's license for identification purposes, but doesn't legally allow you to drive cars on roads... AnonMoos (talk) 11:16, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

That is, if the state doesn't move the DMV to an area where pedestrian traffic is both discouraged and unsafe. Ian.thomson (talk) 02:38, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

I live in a state capital, and there's a DMV attached to the State Trooper HQ (fairly centrally located within the city) which is very accessible by bus. Of course, the wait there may be significantly longer than other DMV locations which are in less public-transit friendly locations... AnonMoos (talk) 05:12, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

In general, sure. But that doesn't mean an employer will hire a given individual. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:48, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

You have to fill out Form I-9. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 18:12, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

The answer to the OP's question is still "Yes." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:29, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

• When I started working at Behemart about five years ago, all I gave them was a drug test and the routing number for direct deposit to my credit union. Part of my paycheck still went to social security. I suspect the reason they didn't bother even checking ID was that:

-what, am I really going to work to help someone else's Social Security fund?

-the store was in a poor neighborhood where it takes three hours to get to the DMV by bus (assuming both of the transfers are timed right and you don't have to spend up to an hour waiting for the next bus), and an hour away from the two separate offices that provide the documentation you need to get an ID card (though you need an ID card to get that documentation and yet people wonder how voter ID laws could possibly result in voter suppression).

About a year and a half ago, I started working at a nearby grocery store in a neighborhood where you either have a car or you are housebound. There, I not only had to fill out the I-9 but I had to go and get them a copy of my Social Security card because corporate wanted it just in case immigration services ever stopped by with the assumption that only illegal immigrants would ever work as cashiers. For some reason, all my passport did was let corporate give me an extension in getting another Social Security card (family had lost mine while I was in China). Ian.thomson (talk) 02:38, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

But you still had to give WalMart your Social Security number, I assume (even if you didn't show them your physical Social Security card, which actually doesn't mean very much anyway). Where I live, it would be very difficult to have any kind of bank account without a DMV-issued ID (or some more esoteric forms of identification, such as a passport etc., that would be more difficult for most U.S. citizens to obtain than a DMV-issued ID). AnonMoos (talk) 05:12, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

To answer the OP's specific question, even if a SSN is required, every US citizen is automatically authorised to receive a SSN either at birth or later in life, therefore, yes, every US citizen is automatically authorised to work in the USA, if he finds an employer who wants to hire him and legally can hire him (with the obvious limitation that some people on certain registries can't do certain jobs). --Lgriot (talk) 14:15, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Did Noah's son Ham have sex with Noah's wife, Ham's mother?

I heard a passage from Genesis quoted, saying Noah's son Ham sinned by uncovering his father's nakedness.

The same translation of the Bible had a passage in Leviticus saying any man who has sex with his mother has uncovered his father's nakedness.

The use of that same phrase makes one wonder if the passage from Genesis was intended to mean Ham had sex with his mother. Michael Hardy (talk) 13:33, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Weren't there 8 people on the ark? 4 men and unnamed wives? In universe that is. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 13:37, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Four named men and four unnamed women. Including Ham and Ham's wife. Michael Hardy (talk) 17:46, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Lots of details in Curse of Ham. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:48, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Incest is not mentioned in that article... AnonMoos (talk) 18:09, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Precisely. The OP is jumping to un unsupported conclusion. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:27, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Well... "Ancient commentaries have also debated whether "seeing" someone's nakedness meant to have sex with that person (e.g. Leviticus 20:17).[15] The same idea was raised by 3rd-century rabbis, in the Babylonian Talmud (c. 500 AD), who argue that Ham either castrated his father, or sodomised him.[17]" Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:03, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

I was referring to maternal incest, which is what the original question asked about. Sex with a same-gender relative might not even be considered "incest" according to some traditional definitions. The Bible's incest prohibitions in Leviticus 18 are stated in terms of a man's female relatives... AnonMoos (talk) 21:15, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

I find it strange that the article doesn't mention the crime of Judah, who uncovered his father's nakedness in a similar fashion.PiCo (talk) 21:57, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

I find it strange that people feel it's so important to argue about the meaning of 400 year old translations of considerably older texts written in very different cultural times. HiLo48 (talk) 00:14, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Ain't it the truth. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:11, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Very good original research. And its not incest (cause she's not his mom) its cuckoldry, with a betrayal of family trust. Young new wives of old men will do the trick. -Inowen (nlfte) 06:02, 1 November 2018 (UTC)