Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2018 August 16

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August 16

On Nero's last phrases

Per Suetonius, trans. C Edwards, Oxford World Classics pp224-5: "What an artist dies with me," "My life is shameful--unbecoming to Nero, unbecoming--in such circumstances, one must be decisive--come, rouse yourself!" then "The thunder of swift-footed horses echoes around my ears," and "Too late" and (the sentence parsed in two here) "This is loyalty."

On first impressions, this reads like Suetonius was combining accounts of what were supposed to have been Nero's final words. The second is dripping with verisimilitude, and the final also strikes the ear as credible--slightly poetic, but not too much, and amply ambiguous.

Anyway, I'm wondering if somebody would hook me up with the original Latin, and alternate English translations. (German translations wouldn't hurt either!) Other accounts and takes on Nero's last words would also not be refused. Temerarius (talk) 03:34, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

A short video about Nero's last words. DroneB (talk) 04:39, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

It's probably worth mentioning that Suetonius isn't completely reliable, and that last words are often made up by biographers to make a point rather tha accurately reported. - Nunh-huh 04:44, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

In the original, where Nero was supposed to have been speaking both Latin and Greek: "Qualis artifex pereo!", "Vivo deformiter, turpiter — οὐ πρέπει Νέρωνι, οὐ πρέπει — νήφειν δεῖ ἐν τοῖς τοιούτοις — ἄγε ἔγειρε σεαυτόν.", "Ἵππων μ’ ὠκυπόδων ἀμφὶ κτύπος οὔατα βάλλει!", "Sero," "Haec est fides."

What follows is Rolfe's 1913-1914 English translation: "What an artist the world is losing!", "To live is a scandal and a shame — this does not become Nero, does not become him — one should be resolute at such times — come, rouse thyself!" "Hark, now strikes on my ear the trampling of swift-footed coursers!", "Too late!", "This is fidelity!"

You can read both the original and this translation at this site. Someguy1221 (talk) 04:53, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Weddings with bride asked first

In the humorous wedding setup of Katy Perry's Hot n Cold video, the bride is asked first for her wedding vow. As far as I have encountered, this is unusual, but of course I have a limited scope. So: Among Christian denominations, other religions and civil register offices all over the world, asking for a "Yes" or like word of consent at a wedding - where is asking the bride before the groom...

a) the normal case,

b) a somewhat usual variation,

c) totally inconceivable and a no-go?

--KnightMove (talk) 09:20, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• In the Church of England, it's groom first, both in the modern Common Worship [1] and the traditional Book of Common Prayer [2]. The latter was the basis for all Anglican liturgy until the mid-20th century, so it's a fair bet that most, if not all of the 44 national churches in the Anglican Communion follow suit; also the Methodists who took the BCP with them when they parted company with the Anglicans. 14:13, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• This seems relevant to the discussion at hand. --Jayron32 18:25, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• According to this source, the bride’s consent is asked before the groom’s consent in a Muslim wedding.
  • (Also, sample ceremony scripts are available online. You could look at secular, Jewish and Protestant Christian ceremony scripts, Buddhist and Muslim, Muslim, secular, Catholic Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, Hindu, Hindu, Hindu, Hindu, Muslim Jewish.) 70.67.222.124 (talk) 18:42, 16 August 2018 (UTC)