Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2012 June 15

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June 15

Thinking of a police incident

The South Park "4th Grade" opening includes this scene. It reminds me of an real police event involving a child; does anyone know what it was? Thanks! -- Tohler (talk) 01:01, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

I think you're thinking of a photo in Elián González affair, but this is what Cecil Adams might deem as "no longer weird". It can be a lot worse. See Death of Aiyana Jones^[1] Wnt (talk) 01:47, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

By "Cecil Adams" did you mean Chuck Shepherd? —Tamfang (talk) 05:05, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Indeed, it's from the episode Quintuplets 2000. That scene was based on a famous picture from the real life case, and the episode came out in the same week. It was an impressive demonstration of South Park's ability to put together an episode quickly, allowing references to very recent events. 98.226.12.79 (talk) 23:01, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Lost compositions by Michael Haydn

List of compositions by Michael Haydn lists twenty compositions that have been lost in all but name, including Die Schuldigkeit des ersten Gebots, which survives although without the portion he composed. Is such a high number of known losses common for composers of the period? I'm surprised, as I figured that well-known composers' works would survive and lesser-known composers' works wouldn't even survive in name. Nyttend (talk) 12:21, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Twenty works out of a list of that size is not really a high proportion, I'd say. In general, it would have been relatively easy for operatic and sacred works of the period to get lost. Since those works were written for performances at specific institutions, rather than for print publication, there would often have been only one or two sets of handwritten copies, and those might then be left either in the hands of the composer or in the archive of the church or theater in question – where they could easily get forgotten or misplaced, unless the place was particularly well organized or it was a particularly high profile work. A work like Die Schuldigkeit des ersten Gebots was probably a rather routine event, and if only the parts written by young Mozart were saved, my guess is it was because his dad made a point of keeping his personal archive of what his prodigy son produced. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:39, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Book translation

This is more miscellaneous, really, but I chose here. Is there a good article source here that will lead me to info on what, if any, languages a book is available in? I suppose wikipedia ref may not be best immediate start, but it's habit a bit and I figure if there is not a good article this question might prompt it. Thanks for reply.Julzes (talk) 13:02, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

You could use the Library of Congress to search for all the editions of a book, including translations. Itsmejudith (talk) 18:45, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

You can use WorldCat (it is a union catalog of thousands of libraries around the world). Once you search and find the book, click on "view all editions and formats" link. --Meskeremg (talk) 04:28, 17 June 2012 (UTC) Virtual Reference Librarian at http://www.asknowtexas.org

The Body of the Conquistador, If You Eat Their Food. . . by Rebecca Earle

Am I right? Rebecca does not believe that the food and the climate (or at least only food) led to the growth of race theory? --84.110.185.226 (talk) 16:47, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't know this book specifically, but concern over eating another culture's food goes back at least 1000 years before the conquistadors. Late-Roman Christians were forbidden (in canon law, if not in practise) from eating Jewish food. The conquistadors would have known the same prohibition against eating with Muslims (I assume Earle must mention this in the book). Adam Bishop (talk) 06:36, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople

How is the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople elected? Is it only Turkish Greek bishops that are allowed to vote for the next Patriarch or does all Greek Orthodox bishops regardless of nationality? How is the Patriarchate going to survive if only Turkish citizens are allowed to be elected when Turkey's Greek community is on the verge of extinction since the population exchange in the 1920s? Will Turkey amend this law in the future? Is there any discussion about creating an independent state from the Fener district in Istanbul much like the Vatican in Italy?--Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy (talk) 20:49, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

The patriarch is elected by the Synod of his church, i.e. of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople. That article has some information about the composition of the synod; it comprises some members from the expatriate churches in western Europe and America too. The article has some half-sourced hints that there might be a conflict over these members, but I couldn't tell you more about that. The problem that the patriarch himself has to be a Turkish citizen is widely reported to be a serious problem for the future, and I am not aware of any changes in this. An independent political status for the Fener seems quite out of the question – the Turkish state would certainly meet any such initiative as nothing less than high treason, and within the Orthodox church there is no tradition favouring any such arrangement (indeed, it is a long-standing point of criticism upheld by Orthodox voices against the Roman Catholic church that it betrayed the true role of the church by assuming political power.) Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:39, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Why is there so much religious restriction on the Patriarchate by secular Turkey? Under the current laws, the patriarch has to be a Turkish citizen, the Turkish government can veto a candidate and the Turkish government doesn't recognize him as head of the Orthodox Church outside of Turkey. Isn't some of these laws pushing a bit on religious oppression? I'm not familiar with Turkey's current political situation but isn't this a bit much.--Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy (talk) 02:15, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Turkey has been violating its 1920's treaty obligations pretty much since 1955, so why change now... AnonMoos (talk) 05:48, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Turkey may be officially secular, but it is still an almost exclusively Muslim country, so the concerns of the Patriarchate rank low. More importantly, however, the Patriarchate is still seen through the lens of Greek-Turkish antagonism, as a potential agent of Greek interests, as a reminder of Istanbul's non-Turkish heritage, as a "foreign" presence on Turkish soil and as an excuse for foreigners to meddle with Turkish affairs, as it was in late Ottoman times. This is coupled with distorted view of the Patriarchate's actual role in Greek nationalism (if anything, the patriarchal establishment opposed the rise of nationalism among Greeks as elsewhere, clearly seeing that this would diminish its own control over the Orthodox of the Balkans), but the Turkish security establishment has a regular phobia with partition plans for Turkey. They'd definitely prefer it to be moved away, perhaps to Mt. Athos. Ironically, under the mildly Islamist AKP the pressure may ease, as it purports to follow Ottoman models (though there's nothing tangible so far). At any rate, the common riposte I've read regarding the possibility of a vacancy is that the requirement is that the Patriarch be a Turkish citizen, not necessarily born in Turkey... Constantine ✍ 21:42, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Greeks in Turkey

Has Turkey done anything to relax the laws on the Greeks in their country? Is Greek immigration allowed? Greeks in Turkey talks about the dying community and compensation but nothing about immigration. --Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy (talk) 20:49, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

There has reportedly been a notable trend in the last two or three years, due to the Greek economic crisis and simultaneous boom in Turkey, for young Greeks to move to Turkey for work, especially to Istanbul, though most of them certainly don't mean to stay permanently, and this work migration will hardly involve taking Turkish citizenship. As far as I know, there are no particular laws that Turkey would have to relax first in order for it to be possible for Greeks to immigrate. There never was a law saying that Greeks cannot live in Turkey or become Turkish citizens in principle – the 1923 population exchange merely meant that those that had been citizens prior to that time were thrown out. Immigration or naturalization of Greek citizens today would presumably be subject merely to Turkey's general immigration laws, just the same as for citizens of other countries. Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:28, 15 June 2012 (UTC)